Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

William Bury website

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Wyatt Earp View Post
    She evidently did not want to service him that night. Perhaps she was waiting for someone else, perhaps she was unhappy about some previous engagement with him. There are multiple possibilities.
    Excuse me, Wyatt, I'm still not following. Stride's killer (Bury) was a previous punter. He propositions her on the street, she isn't interested and he manhandles her to the floor. After that altercation, she has a change of heart and suddenly goes into the yard with the guy who just assaulted her?

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Single-O-Seven View Post
      I very much enjoy your William Bury website and regularly check in to see if you've updated it. I find your discussions and analyses interesting.

      I do think WHB is the best suspect there is. Signature analysis may be our best hope of solving (or coming close to an answer) the JTR murders. And WHB is undoubtedly the only one who can be confirmed as demonstrating himself as a murderer with the same signature as JTR. That's quite telling. Add that to the fact that no hurdles and shuffling of times/locations need to be performed to suggest he was in the East End throughout the JTR crimes. We know he was there, just as we know he pulled a lot of BS to get himself out of there at the end of the spree. All of these details cannot be convincingly stated for any one else.

      While it is still - and may always be - conjecture, the known evidence and rational analyses of the case fit best with WHB, IMO. Why so much effort and emphasis is placed on suspects who require leaps of logic and the bending of evidence to paint them as JTR is beyond me.

      I'd like to think research may uncover further and even better evidence/details about WHB. Perhaps you could do an entry on your website outlining missing details in Bury's history, and where our best chances of finding such information may lie? This may spur on researchers to start looking in the right places, and more holes in the story of WHB might get filled in.
      hi single and wyatt
      I too think Bury is one of the best candidates for Jack the ripper. However, my main problem with him, ironically is based on signature evidence.

      I have come to the conclusion that Alice Mckenzie was undoubtedly a ripper victim, mainly on the signature evidence-slashed throat and mutilated abdomen. (along with same victimology and location).

      but of course she couldn't have been killed by Bury as ripper, obviously since bury was dead by this point.

      what say you?
      "Is all that we see or seem
      but a dream within a dream?"

      -Edgar Allan Poe


      "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
      quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

      -Frederick G. Abberline

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Harry D View Post
        Excuse me, Wyatt, I'm still not following. Stride's killer (Bury) was a previous punter. He propositions her on the street, she isn't interested and he manhandles her to the floor. After that altercation, she has a change of heart and suddenly goes into the yard with the guy who just assaulted her?
        Hello Harry,

        While Stride going into the yard with the B.S. man (be it Bury or someone else) seems unlikely it cannot be ruled out entirely. He claims it was an accident, apologizes profusely and offers even more money than the usual price. Hard to say what her response would be.

        c.d.

        Comment


        • #19
          Hi Abby!

          Alice McKenzie is an interesting thorn in the debate of Bury's candidacy as JTR. Outside of Tabram through Kelly, she is the next best fit in the entire Whitechapel series as being a possible JTR victim. However, I think the "mild" abdominal cuts (described almost as scratches) suggest she was not a JTR victim. I just don't see why he wouldn't have cut deeper given he had the chance to do so.

          Perhaps a similar argument could be made for Ellen Bury (though her wounds were deep enough to expose her intestines), but I feel her immediate connection to Bury likely gave him cause to hesitate. He wanted to explore that lust/fascination that satisfied him, but given she was his own wife this may have impacted his desire to do so, perhaps out of fear of looking too inescapably like the Ripper.

          With AM, I cannot quite get what her killer was otherwise trying to do. By making the abdominal cuts was he making her murder seem Ripper-like but did not have the nerve (let alone the need/desire) to fully inflict the sort of savagery JTR did? And what became of her killer? Why did he not strike again, or did he end up moving away/incarcerated/dead? There is a whole worthwhile mystery in just AM's death, but it may, I'm afraid, be more hopeless to find a solution for it than for the rest of the series.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Single-O-Seven View Post
            I very much enjoy your William Bury website and regularly check in to see if you've updated it. I find your discussions and analyses interesting.

            I do think WHB is the best suspect there is. Signature analysis may be our best hope of solving (or coming close to an answer) the JTR murders. And WHB is undoubtedly the only one who can be confirmed as demonstrating himself as a murderer with the same signature as JTR. That's quite telling. Add that to the fact that no hurdles and shuffling of times/locations need to be performed to suggest he was in the East End throughout the JTR crimes. We know he was there, just as we know he pulled a lot of BS to get himself out of there at the end of the spree. All of these details cannot be convincingly stated for any one else.

            While it is still - and may always be - conjecture, the known evidence and rational analyses of the case fit best with WHB, IMO. Why so much effort and emphasis is placed on suspects who require leaps of logic and the bending of evidence to paint them as JTR is beyond me.

            I'd like to think research may uncover further and even better evidence/details about WHB. Perhaps you could do an entry on your website outlining missing details in Bury's history, and where our best chances of finding such information may lie? This may spur on researchers to start looking in the right places, and more holes in the story of WHB might get filled in.
            Thanks for that, 07. There’s a lot about Bury that we don’t know. For example, where in London did he stay when he first arrived in the area? Did he initially stay in the Whitechapel area before landing at Martin’s place? That’s certainly worth exploring. I’m in the U.S. and unable to get over to the U.K. to conduct research, but I’m hoping that Bury researchers in the U.K. can uncover more things about him.
            “When a major serial killer case is finally solved and all the paperwork completed, police are sometimes amazed at how obvious the killer was and how they were unable to see what was right before their noses.” —Robert D. Keppel and William J. Birnes, The Psychology of Serial Killer Investigations

            William Bury, Victorian Murderer
            http://www.williambury.org

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by c.d. View Post
              "I expect Bury would have been concerned about Stride identifying him either out of her unhappiness about the incident, or because the police might have pressured her to do so."

              Identify him how? By name or description? How likely is it that the police would have said "a woman engaging in an illegal activity has been pushed and disrespected in Whitechapel. Well not on our watch. Drop all other ongoing investigations (including all other crimes) and focus all your attention on catching this man."

              Could the police have thought the BS man could have been the Ripper if he had walked away and been reported by Stride? Sure. But so could every man that pushed a woman or slapped her or made some drunken remark that the whores got what they deserved. Other crime and misogyny didn't stop in Whitechapel during the Ripper murders. There were only so many police to conduct investigations. They had to pick and choose on what leads to pursue.

              c.d.
              The assumption I’m making is that Stride knew him by name. One can make a reasonable argument that Bury should not have been too concerned about a police investigation, but it’s important for us to put ourselves in Bury’s shoes at the time of the incident. He knew that he had already murdered three women, he knew the police were looking for him, so probably the last thing he would want was for the police to come knocking on his door in connection with an assault on a prostitute on the streets of Whitechapel. So after Schwartz and Pipeman had left, Bury had a choice to make. Should I just walk away, say my prayers, and hope that Stride doesn’t ID me and that the police don’t come looking for me, or should I take matters into my hands, eliminate Stride so that there’s no risk of my being identified, and simply get the h out of there? While you might have been willing to roll the dice with Bury’s neck, Bury himself might have had other ideas. I don’t think we should be at all surprised that a serial murderer would choose to solve a problem like this by simply committing another murder.
              “When a major serial killer case is finally solved and all the paperwork completed, police are sometimes amazed at how obvious the killer was and how they were unable to see what was right before their noses.” —Robert D. Keppel and William J. Birnes, The Psychology of Serial Killer Investigations

              William Bury, Victorian Murderer
              http://www.williambury.org

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by c.d. View Post
                Hello Seven,

                Even if he eliminated Stride as a witness he was still seen by Schwartz and Pipe Man.

                c.d.
                But if Schwartz and Pipeman did not know his name, he would not have been in danger from them.
                “When a major serial killer case is finally solved and all the paperwork completed, police are sometimes amazed at how obvious the killer was and how they were unable to see what was right before their noses.” —Robert D. Keppel and William J. Birnes, The Psychology of Serial Killer Investigations

                William Bury, Victorian Murderer
                http://www.williambury.org

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Harry D View Post
                  Excuse me, Wyatt, I'm still not following. Stride's killer (Bury) was a previous punter. He propositions her on the street, she isn't interested and he manhandles her to the floor. After that altercation, she has a change of heart and suddenly goes into the yard with the guy who just assaulted her?
                  I’d suggest things could have transpired like this. After Schwartz and Pipeman had left, he told her that he was going to pop her in the chops if she didn’t go into the yard with him and give him what he wanted. Stride, having done business with him before and survived it, decides discretion is the better part of valor, picks herself up, dusts herself off, and grudgingly agrees to go into the yard with him. He either hands her the cachous to distract her, or she takes them out on her own to calm her nerves after that little tango outside the gate, and that’s when Bury strikes.
                  “When a major serial killer case is finally solved and all the paperwork completed, police are sometimes amazed at how obvious the killer was and how they were unable to see what was right before their noses.” —Robert D. Keppel and William J. Birnes, The Psychology of Serial Killer Investigations

                  William Bury, Victorian Murderer
                  http://www.williambury.org

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                    hi single and wyatt
                    I too think Bury is one of the best candidates for Jack the ripper. However, my main problem with him, ironically is based on signature evidence.

                    I have come to the conclusion that Alice Mckenzie was undoubtedly a ripper victim, mainly on the signature evidence-slashed throat and mutilated abdomen. (along with same victimology and location).

                    but of course she couldn't have been killed by Bury as ripper, obviously since bury was dead by this point.

                    what say you?
                    The problem you have, Abby, is that the person who is the world-class expert on signature evidence, Robert Keppel, he and his team of criminologists looked at the Alice McKenzie murder and the Pinchin Street torso case, and determined that neither one of them could be linked to the Ripper through signature analysis. McKenzie and the torsos are both dead ends, and you should abandon them.
                    “When a major serial killer case is finally solved and all the paperwork completed, police are sometimes amazed at how obvious the killer was and how they were unable to see what was right before their noses.” —Robert D. Keppel and William J. Birnes, The Psychology of Serial Killer Investigations

                    William Bury, Victorian Murderer
                    http://www.williambury.org

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Wyatt Earp View Post
                      But if Schwartz and Pipeman did not know his name, he would not have been in danger from them.
                      Police sketch artist?

                      c.d.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by c.d. View Post
                        Police sketch artist?

                        c.d.
                        Good luck tracking down Jack the Ripper with a picture of a man with a moustache.
                        “When a major serial killer case is finally solved and all the paperwork completed, police are sometimes amazed at how obvious the killer was and how they were unable to see what was right before their noses.” —Robert D. Keppel and William J. Birnes, The Psychology of Serial Killer Investigations

                        William Bury, Victorian Murderer
                        http://www.williambury.org

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Wyatt Earp View Post
                          Good luck tracking down Jack the Ripper with a picture of a man with a moustache.
                          Well if Schwartz (and possibly Pipeman) could give a detailed description of the man they saw in an altercation with Stride and a police sketch artist was reasonably competent couldn't they have taken that drawing around to pubs and other establishments in Whitechapel asking if anyone knew this man? A long shot but not impossible.

                          c.d.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Did the police even make use of sketch artists then? It seems they would have done so if they did. The newspapers certainly used them. To the point that many of the images we have of popular figures we know from the JTR case come by way of their newspaper illustrations - Bury included.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Wyatt Earp View Post
                              I’d suggest things could have transpired like this. After Schwartz and Pipeman had left, he told her that he was going to pop her in the chops if she didn’t go into the yard with him and give him what he wanted. Stride, having done business with him before and survived it, decides discretion is the better part of valor, picks herself up, dusts herself off, and grudgingly agrees to go into the yard with him. He either hands her the cachous to distract her, or she takes them out on her own to calm her nerves after that little tango outside the gate, and that’s when Bury strikes.
                              This is certainly a possible scenario but I think a reasonably prudent person would have to assume that Schwartz and/or Pipeman had scurried off to find the nearest PC and the best course of action would be to get the hell out of there as quickly as possible.

                              c.d.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by c.d. View Post
                                This is certainly a possible scenario but I think a reasonably prudent person would have to assume that Schwartz and/or Pipeman had scurried off to find the nearest PC and the best course of action would be to get the hell out of there as quickly as possible.

                                c.d.
                                I think that Bury probably did assume that a policeman would be on the way. That's why he didn't stay to mutilate.

                                After Schwartz and Pipeman had left, he could have eliminated Stride and been off into the shadows of the night in less than a minute.
                                “When a major serial killer case is finally solved and all the paperwork completed, police are sometimes amazed at how obvious the killer was and how they were unable to see what was right before their noses.” —Robert D. Keppel and William J. Birnes, The Psychology of Serial Killer Investigations

                                William Bury, Victorian Murderer
                                http://www.williambury.org

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X