William Bury website

[Sam Flynn]

There is a plethora of unknown, unidentified suspects with the potential to be the killer. And the chances are good that one of them was the Ripper.

Indeed, Harry.

Not trying to belabour the point, but we have a murderer who lived within a 2.5 mile radius during the crimes, left London after the Autumn of Terror, and cut open his wife's stomach. Somehow this only deserves a staggering 5% approval rating?

Given the population density, there would have been scores, if not hundreds, of likely suspects who lived far closer to the epicentre of the murders than Bury. And, to reiterate, there were no Ripper murders closer to Bromley-by-Bow than Nichols', and no Ripper murders south or east of Bromley either.

As to the wounds, a 4.5" cut penetrating the abdominal wall below the umbilicus, coupled with a slightly longer superficial cut which didn't penetrate the abdomen, doesn't really compare with what the Ripper did to his victims. Victims which he dispatched with a swift and devastating cut to the throat - a technique honed over several murders by the time Ellen was killed; yet Ellen did not perish by this practised and efficient means, but was throttled with a rope.

[Harry D]

There is a plethora of unknown, unidentified suspects with the potential to be the killer. And the chances are good that one of them was the Ripper. Not trying to belabour the point, but we have a murderer who lived within a 2.5 mile radius during the crimes, left London after the Autumn of Terror, and cut open his wife's stomach. Somehow this only deserves a staggering 5% approval rating?

[Abby Normal]

It's a question of ratios, and how complete our sample data are. For example:



That's a purely illustrative graphic, based on an arbitrary number of 10 "good" named suspects, versus 200 potentially "good" suspects from among the tens of thousands of East End residents we've yet to hear about. The blue segment contains Bury, Lechmere, Kozminski, Flemming... (I'm struggling to name 10 "good" ones already), which is itself less than 5% of the whole. Personally, I think that the ratio of 200:10 unnamed/named suspects is very conservative, and that the odds that we've found the Ripper in the handful of good suspects we've thus far identified are very small indeed.

Hi Sam

I'm struggling to name 10 "good" ones already

heres mine-or at least my 10 least weak:
Hutch
Blotchy
Bury
Koz
Kelly
Chapman
Lech
flemming
Richardson
Oswald Puckridge


Though I admit-last three are a stretch but I see what your saying it is hard to come up with even 10.

[Sam Flynn]

What’s for the criteria for over 5% then?

It's a question of ratios, and how complete our sample data are. For example:



That's a purely illustrative graphic, based on an arbitrary number of 10 "good" named suspects, versus 200 potentially "good" suspects from among the tens of thousands of East End residents we've yet to hear about. The blue segment contains Bury, Lechmere, Kozminski, Flemming... (I'm struggling to name 10 "good" ones already), which is itself less than 5% of the whole. Personally, I think that the ratio of 200:10 unnamed/named suspects is very conservative, and that the odds that we've found the Ripper in the handful of good suspects we've thus far identified are very small indeed.

[Harry D]

What’s for the criteria for over 5% then? How do you quantify the validity of a suspect?

[Herlock Sholmes]

That seems ridiculously low, Herlock. Bury's the only named suspect we know guilty of committing a Ripper-esque murder who can be tied to the East End during the Autumn of Terror. There are good arguments for Ellen Bury's lack of overkill, and the only Ripper murder that happened after his death (McKenzie) is a much disputed one.

It might be a bit low Harry but I really think that the overwhelming likelihood is that the ripper has yet to be named. I also think the overwhelming likelihood is that he never will. Of the named suspects I’d say that there are a few that can be safely dismissed and a few that can’t be categorically disproven but are highly unlikely. Of the suspects that are regularly placed in the top tier I’d go for Kosminski, Druitt and Bury as the best. It’s difficult to put a figure on this and I’ve got no problem with Abby’s 12%. I still don’t know how it can be said that we can now say that Bury has been proven as the ripper? To whose satisfaction? A few individuals, no matter how genuine in their beliefs or knowledgeable about the case, are simply not enough to make that kind of statement. Fisherman for example strongly favours Lechmere as we all know but I don’t think that he would say that it’s case closed. We have no way of knowing that the murder of his wife wasn’t a one off. He might appear the right ‘type’ but that’s not enough to close the case.

[Sam Flynn]

I think a murder where the throat is targeted together with abdominal post-mortem mutilation must be considered 'Ripper-esque'. If Ellen's injuries had been as severe as Chapman, Eddowes etc. we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. Be that as it may, the fact Ellen's injuries were inflicted shortly after death would suggest an impulsive reaction on Bury's part rather than a planned one.

She was garotted, and the abdominal wounding was very limited in extent.

[Abby Normal]

That seems ridiculously low, Herlock. Bury's the only named suspect we know guilty of committing a Ripper-esque murder who can be tied to the East End during the Autumn of Terror. There are good arguments for Ellen Bury's lack of overkill, and the only Ripper murder that happened after his death (McKenzie) is a much disputed one.

Hi Harry
I wouldn't say ridiculously low. Ive got bury at about 12% chance of being the ripper. Hes in my top tier of half dozen viable candidates and with that group I thinkin were are looking at slightly above 50/50 (say 60%) that the ripper would be amongst them.

Bury has a lot going for him and is the one of the best of a bad lot. or as I like to say-all the ripper suspects are weak, some just least weak than others.

[Single-O-Seven]

I think a murder where the throat is targeted together with abdominal post-mortem mutilation must be considered 'Ripper-esque'. If Ellen's injuries had been as severe as Chapman, Eddowes etc. we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. Be that as it may, the fact Ellen's injuries were inflicted shortly after death would suggest an impulsive reaction on Bury's part rather than a planned one.

And it's that bizarre impulse that is most suggestive. A rare fetish he just had to satisfy, even though he had to know how it would look once she was discovered. Which is why I believe he pulled back before going all out in the manner of Chapman, Eddowes or Kelly.

[Harry D]

I don't see Ellen's murder as particularly ripperesque, TBH

I think a murder where the throat is targeted together with abdominal post-mortem mutilation must be considered 'Ripper-esque'. If Ellen's injuries had been as severe as Chapman, Eddowes etc. we probably wouldn't be having this conversation. Be that as it may, the fact Ellen's injuries were inflicted shortly after death would suggest an impulsive reaction on Bury's part rather than a planned one.

[Harry D]

The graffiti is something that's often overlooked in William Bury's case.

There were two chalked messages at the back of the Bury's apartment: "jack ripper is at the back of this door" and "jack ripper is in this seller"(sic)

It does seem like the kind of thing children would write. However, as policemen were stationed at the apartment following the murder, it's doubtful that anyone other than William or Ellen wrote it. I've seen it theorised that Bury wrote it in a feeble/drunken attempt to deflect blame onto the Ripper, before he went with Plan B.

[Single-O-Seven]

Good points. Although, with the heightened police presence and vigilance committee in Whitechapel, it's questionable that Bury would keep to the same hotzone if he could avoid it. That would seem to speak more to a Spitalfields/Whitechapel resident.

I think the heightened police/vigilance speaks to why JTR was so quiet throughout October. He returned on one occasion in November, after which the vigilance fever spiked again - and the Ripper went quiet, seemingly permanently.

[Harry D]

Yes, but it's not disputed that Bury did spend much of his time in Whitechapel, drinking and interacting with prostitutes. He could have done that closer to home too, but didn't. Or maybe he did, who knows? But the fact remains that he did regularly attend and work in Whitechapel. Had he killed closer to home perhaps there was a better chance he would have been recognized by neighbours or people who could name him? He's known to have had the means to travel between Bow and Whitechapel, so the distance is of little consequence.

Good points. Although, with the heightened police presence and vigilance committee in Whitechapel, it's questionable that Bury would keep to the same hotzone if he could avoid it. That would seem to speak more to a Spitalfields/Whitechapel resident.

[Sam Flynn]

Yes, but it's not disputed that Bury did spend much of his time in Whitechapel, drinking and interacting with prostitutes. He could have done that closer to home too, but didn't. Or maybe he did, who knows? But the fact remains that he did regularly attend and work in Whitechapel. Had he killed closer to home perhaps there was a better chance he would have been recognized by neighbours or people who could name him? He's known to have had the means to travel between Bow and Whitechapel, so the distance is of little consequence.

There were tens of thousands of people closer to home, so it's unlikely that he'd have stood out amongst the crowd; on the contrary, he could have saved himself several trips and still melted into the darkness with impunity. And it's hard to imagine him spending more time hanging about the pubs and prostitutes of Whitechapel than those closer to home; it's not as if Bromley and its immediate neighbours would have been devoid of such diversions.

[Single-O-Seven]

Yes, but it's not disputed that Bury did spend much of his time in Whitechapel, drinking and interacting with prostitutes. He could have done that closer to home too, but didn't. Or maybe he did, who knows? But the fact remains that he did regularly attend and work in Whitechapel. Had he killed closer to home perhaps there was a better chance he would have been recognized by neighbours or people who could name him? He's known to have had the means to travel between Bow and Whitechapel, so the distance is of little consequence.