WH Bury Problems

[John Wheat]

I suggest Bury didn't mutilate Ellen as she was his wife. Had he gone to town on her he would have been hung as the Ripper. Your limb cutting being idea for ease of transport is pure supposition. It is one possiblity. We simply don't know if for example the Torso Killer got a thrill from dismemberment.

[Rainbow]

I suggest Bury didn't mutilate Ellen as she was his wife.

hehehe

Then why the hell he killed her?!

He must have loved her, hasn't he?!

hahaha


Rainbow°

[Columbo]

Not really, it's only you and your sock puppet that have a problem.

Let's say that the Ripper was an "alcoholic wife-beater". Is that any better or do you wish to quibble some more?

Sock Puppet? Never heard that used in that context. Nice.

Columbo

[Fisherman]

I suggest Bury didn't mutilate Ellen as she was his wife. Had he gone to town on her he would have been hung as the Ripper. Your limb cutting being idea for ease of transport is pure supposition. It is one possiblity. We simply don't know if for example the Torso Killer got a thrill from dismemberment.

Stick with the topic please!

The likeness between Burys murder of his wife and thr Ripper deeds, damagewise, is that Bury cut the abdomen open - as did the Ripper. There dissimilarity between the cutting size is very apparent, though.

This is the only likeness there is.

Conversely, the Torso killer ALSO cut the abdomens open on his victims - but he cut the same way the Ripper did, from sternum to pubes.

So on this point only, there is a greater similarity between the Ripper and the Torso man, than between the Ripper and Bury.

Add to this the OTHER similarities between the Ripper and the Torso man, where Bury is left behind:

The taking of organs of a sexual character
The taking of organs of a non-sexual character
The severing of the neck
The taking of rings
The removal of colon parts
The removal of the abdominal walls in large panes
The taking of the rings

and you will find that HERE are the similarities that you would need for Bury to be a real contender. And I ask you again, when you see this, answering to your demands to a much higher degree than Bury does, then why would you not admit that the two were probably the same man? How on earth could you accept Bury as a likeness on diddley squat when you don´t accept the shared identity between two men who do the exact same things to their victims, things that are rarer than hen´s teeth?

As for your suggestion that Bury did not dismember Ellen out of respect for his wife, I can only echo Rainbow: He strangled her to death, he cut her open like a pig, he broke her limbs and stuffed her into a box.

Who could ask more from a loving husband? The beating to end all beatings, eh!

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=Fisherman;400730]

Add to this the OTHER similarities between the Ripper and the Torso man, where Bury is left behind:

The taking of organs of a sexual character

Evidence for the torso victims?

The taking of organs of a non-sexual character

Evidence for the torso victims?

The taking of rings

Evidence for the torso victims?

[Harry D]

No, it´s secondary police work, and only comes into play of there is no suspect identified who was present and any of the murder sites.

Well, I can't think of one, can you?

Amusing? How so? Oh, I forgot - you think it is a shooutout, some sort of competition.

Yes, because implicit within every post against Bury is the suggestion that he is an inferior suspect to Lechmere. A truly risible notion for anyone with their head on straight.

I´m afraid that is no crime at all. And I´m afraid you are talking out of your behind, since you simply have no idea what crimes Lechmere did or did not perpetrate.

And yet apparently you're confident enough of Lechmere's guilt to declare him the Ripper, despite the embarrassing paucity of evidence to back it up. My conclusion is a far more logical and well-founded one than yours, which requires a massive leap of faith to transform an innocent bystander into a murderous fiend.

It is a point that must always be kept in mind, so you wuill hear more about it. It is the exact thing I pointed out to you a few lines ago: Opportunity. The one parameter without which you can NEVER convict.

Let's apply your own logic against you: You don't know if Bury had the opportunity or not. And since he lived in the East End at the time, there's nothing to rule him out either, right?

There was no evidence that Joachim Kroll was violent, no evidence that he was a murderer, no evidence that his contemporaries suspected him.

Firstly, that guy was caught, so we do know that he was capable of these crimes. Lechmere might have been, but what evidence do we have? Which brings us back to your argument from ignorance: Well, "no one suspected this guy, so Lechmere could've been the killer!" Shoulda, woulda, coulda.

I take it you're not a betting man, Fish? There's a word used in the horse racing game when trying to pick a winner. What's it? Oh yeah... FORM. Bury had it, Lechmere did not.

[Fisherman]

[QUOTE=Pierre;400734]

Evidence for the torso victims?

Evidence for the torso victims?

Evidence for the torso victims?

I don´t debate with you, remember, Pierre?

If I did, I would say that the uterus was cut out from Jackson, that the heart and lungs were "removed" as per the medicos from her upper torso and that the arm of Jackson found in the Thames on the 8:th of June 1888 bore marks of a ring that had been taken away.

Then again, I don´t debate with you.

[Fisherman]

Well, I can't think of one, can you?



Yes, because implicit within every post against Bury is the suggestion that he is an inferior suspect to Lechmere. A truly risible notion for anyone with their head on straight.



And yet apparently you're confident enough of Lechmere's guilt to declare him the Ripper, despite the embarrassing paucity of evidence to back it up. My conclusion is a far more logical and well-founded one than yours, which requires a massive leap of faith to transform an innocent bystander into a murderous fiend.



Let's apply your own logic against you: You don't know if Bury had the opportunity or not. And since he lived in the East End at the time, there's nothing to rule him out either, right?



Firstly, that guy was caught, so we do know that he was capable of these crimes. Lechmere might have been, but what evidence do we have? Which brings us back to your argument from ignorance: Well, "no one suspected this guy, so Lechmere could've been the killer!" Shoulda, woulda, coulda.

I take it you're not a betting man, Fish? There's a word used in the horse racing game when trying to pick a winner. What's it? Oh yeah... FORM. Bury had it, Lechmere did not.

A load of tosh. Faults, misrepresentations, uncalled for swaggering and sheer stupidity.

"Since we don´t know where Bury was, he could have had opportunity!"

Dear me.

[John Wheat]

Stick with the topic please!

The likeness between Burys murder of his wife and thr Ripper deeds, damagewise, is that Bury cut the abdomen open - as did the Ripper. There dissimilarity between the cutting size is very apparent, though.

This is the only likeness there is.

Conversely, the Torso killer ALSO cut the abdomens open on his victims - but he cut the same way the Ripper did, from sternum to pubes.

So on this point only, there is a greater similarity between the Ripper and the Torso man, than between the Ripper and Bury.

Add to this the OTHER similarities between the Ripper and the Torso man, where Bury is left behind:

The taking of organs of a sexual character
The taking of organs of a non-sexual character
The severing of the neck
The taking of rings
The removal of colon parts
The removal of the abdominal walls in large panes
The taking of the rings

and you will find that HERE are the similarities that you would need for Bury to be a real contender. And I ask you again, when you see this, answering to your demands to a much higher degree than Bury does, then why would you not admit that the two were probably the same man? How on earth could you accept Bury as a likeness on diddley squat when you don´t accept the shared identity between two men who do the exact same things to their victims, things that are rarer than hen´s teeth?

As for your suggestion that Bury did not dismember Ellen out of respect for his wife, I can only echo Rainbow: He strangled her to death, he cut her open like a pig, he broke her limbs and stuffed her into a box.

Who could ask more from a loving husband? The beating to end all beatings, eh!

How am I not sticking to the topic? Because I have said your idea that the Torso Killer removed limbs for the purpose of disposal is pure speculation? I never suggested Bury had any respect t for his wife he clearly didn't. You have clearly not understood my post. I don't really see what the problem was. But here goes I suggest Bury didn't mutilate his wife to greater degree as he would be hung as The Ripper. Hopefully you and Rainbow can understand that.

[John Wheat]

hehehe

Then why the hell he killed her?!

He must have loved her, hasn't he?!

hahaha


Rainbow°

Read my response to Fisherman's post. Genius.

[Rainbow]

But here goes I suggest Bury didn't mutilate his wife to greater degree as he would be hung as The Ripper. Hopefully you and Rainbow can understand that.

Then why did he kill her ??

Just to put his beloved knife inside her and see what will happen ??

Is the man who mutilated Kelly to that degree, will be satisfied by inserting his sweet knife a little in his wife abdomen ??

He didn't want to be hung as the Ripper, that means he was the Ripper ?????

Do you realy think before you give your out of the world suggestions ??



Rainbow°

[Rainbow]

There's a word used in the horse racing game when trying to pick a winner. What's it? Oh yeah... FORM. Bury had it, Lechmere did not.

Bury has the FORM ?? the man who was shaking for days not knowing what to do after he strangled his wife while being drunk has the FORM of the Ripper who killed two women at the same night while all kind of people and policemen were patrolling the streets ??

the man who couldn't find any solution except to go to the police and then confiss to his guilt has the FORM of the Ripper who mutilated Kelly and turn her into pieces ??

Your horse Harry is a loser ... it hasn't that FORM!



Rainbow°

[Fisherman]

How am I not sticking to the topic? Because I have said your idea that the Torso Killer removed limbs for the purpose of disposal is pure speculation? I never suggested Bury had any respect t for his wife he clearly didn't. You have clearly not understood my post. I don't really see what the problem was. But here goes I suggest Bury didn't mutilate his wife to greater degree as he would be hung as The Ripper. Hopefully you and Rainbow can understand that.

You are not sticking to the topic by dragging in irrelevant stuff. Do the math, see where there are more similarities, and admit this.

If Bury preferred being hanged as a simple domestic killer and not as the Ripper, then maybe he should not have cut open the abdomen of his wife. And maybe he should have washed away that graffiti.

It is an apalling argument you make, it has been squashed and I see no reason to continue discussing with you. If logically and factually demolishing your ideas does not do the trick, nothing will.

[John Wheat]

You are not sticking to the topic by dragging in irrelevant stuff. Do the math, see where there are more similarities, and admit this.

If Bury preferred being hanged as a simple domestic killer and not as the Ripper, then maybe he should not have cut open the abdomen of his wife. And maybe he should have washed away that graffiti.

It is an apalling argument you make, it has been squashed and I see no reason to continue discussing with you. If logically and factually demolishing your ideas does not do the trick, nothing will.

What a joke. You really are full of it. Bury nearly got away with murdering his wife are you even aware of that? You haven't quashed anything logically or factually. Logically and factually Bury is easily the best Ripper suspect.

[John Wheat]

Then why did he kill her ??

Just to put his beloved knife inside her and see what will happen ??

Is the man who mutilated Kelly to that degree, will be satisfied by inserting his sweet knife a little in his wife abdomen ??

He didn't want to be hung as the Ripper, that means he was the Ripper ?????

Do you realy think before you give your out of the world suggestions ??



Rainbow°

Do I think says the biggest buffoon on the site.