WH Bury Problems

[John Wheat]

Bury is an iconoclastic suspect who destroys the mythology of the Ripper. I don't think many people are prepared to accept that one of the most infamous and elusive killers in history was actually a drunken wife-beater. However, history testifies that most serial killers are unremarkable people.

I couldn't agree more Harry.

Cheers John

[Harry D]

Bury did bury his wife in a box. Jack the Ripper left his victims on display.

Different victimology, Pierre. The Ripper killed strangers on the streets of Whitechapel. He didn't need to conceal the bodies. Bury couldn't leave his dead wife's body lying around the house on full display or take her out into the street, now could he?

[Pierre]

Bury is an iconoclastic suspect who destroys the mythology of the Ripper. I don't think many people are prepared to accept that one of the most infamous and elusive killers in history was actually a drunken wife-beater. However, history testifies that most serial killers are unremarkable people.

Bury did bury his wife in a box. Jack the Ripper left his victims on display.

[Harry D]

Bury is an iconoclastic suspect who destroys the mythology of the Ripper. I don't think many people are prepared to accept that one of the most infamous and elusive killers in history was actually a drunken wife-beater. However, history testifies that most serial killers are unremarkable people.

[Pierre]

Itīs the Ripper graffiti that suggests to me that Bury had the Ripper in mind. Otherwise I agree - there is much to tell it apart from the real thing.

Having the Ripper in mind, i.e. a confused killer, trying to blame the victim for suicide and trying to blame Jack the Ripper for murdering her. This is the disorganized type of killer.

[Fisherman]

Agreed, although I'm not sure I would consider Ellen Bury's murder a copycat. It seems what he did to her was out of drunken anger and necessity to put her in the box.

Columbo

Itīs the Ripper graffiti that suggests to me that Bury had the Ripper in mind. Otherwise I agree - there is much to tell it apart from the real thing.

[Fisherman]

Harry D: The graffiti must have been written by Bury or someone after the murder became common knowledge. It could be that Bury wrote the graffiti as his confession in a drunken haze and forgot to scrub it out. Either way, I don't see what impact it has on Ellen Bury as a copycat murder since Bury tried to distance himself from the Ripper.

I am saying that it seems to me to point to a fascination with the Ripper.

McKenzie's murder is the perfect copycat in the sense that it has enough basic similarities to consider it as a Ripper murder but the tentative mutilations, lack of organ removal, throat stabbing over slicing, and the time lapse leave sufficient room for doubt.

True enough.

[Columbo]

Harry D: Yes, it is statistically unlikely that Ellen Bury & Alice McKenzie were both copycat murders. If there's one unsolved murder in the Whitechapel series that comes off as the perfect copycat, it would be Clay Pipe's.

I would suggest that the perfection you speak of instead places it within the realms of the Ripper murders. The less perfect strike, that of Ellen Bury, is what seems to me to be a clumsy effort to hint at a Ripper killing, and thus the more reasonable suggestion for a "copycat murder".
This is - the way I see it - reinforced by the graffiti speaking of the Ripperīs presence.

Agreed, although I'm not sure I would consider Ellen Bury's murder a copycat. It seems what he did to her was out of drunken anger and necessity to put her in the box.

Columbo

[Columbo]

what do you mean by copy cat?

I mean it's entirely possible someone tried to emulate the JTR murders. Whoever obviously did a bad job at it. Just a suggestion.

Columbo

[Columbo]

Yes, it is statistically unlikely that Ellen Bury & Alice McKenzie were both copycat murders. If there's one unsolved murder in the Whitechapel series that comes off as the perfect copycat, it would be Clay Pipe's.



In your opinion, would that strengthen the case for Bury?

I'm not sure yet. Not being very familiar with him I'm playing catch-up to learn more.

Columbo

[Abby Normal]

There is the possibility any if these killings could've also been JTR copycats.

Columbo

what do you mean by copy cat?

[Harry D]

I would suggest that the perfection you speak of instead places it within the realms of the Ripper murders. The less perfect strike, that of Ellen Bury, is what seems to me to be a clumsy effort to hint at a Ripper killing, and thus the more reasonable suggestion for a "copycat murder".
This is - the way I see it - reinforced by the graffiti speaking of the Ripperīs presence.

The graffiti must have been written by Bury or someone after the murder became common knowledge. It could be that Bury wrote the graffiti as his confession in a drunken haze and forgot to scrub it out. Either way, I don't see what impact it has on Ellen Bury as a copycat murder since Bury tried to distance himself from the Ripper.

McKenzie's murder is the perfect copycat in the sense that it has enough basic similarities to consider it as a Ripper murder but the tentative mutilations, lack of organ removal, throat stabbing over slicing, and the time lapse leave sufficient room for doubt.

[Fisherman]

Harry D: Yes, it is statistically unlikely that Ellen Bury & Alice McKenzie were both copycat murders. If there's one unsolved murder in the Whitechapel series that comes off as the perfect copycat, it would be Clay Pipe's.

I would suggest that the perfection you speak of instead places it within the realms of the Ripper murders. The less perfect strike, that of Ellen Bury, is what seems to me to be a clumsy effort to hint at a Ripper killing, and thus the more reasonable suggestion for a "copycat murder".
This is - the way I see it - reinforced by the graffiti speaking of the Ripperīs presence.

[Harry D]

And MacKenzies killer! And Liz Jacksons killer!

They must have been around in numbers, the abdominal mutilators.

Unless you are correct, and it IS a rare fetish.

Yes, it is statistically unlikely that Ellen Bury & Alice McKenzie were both copycat murders. If there's one unsolved murder in the Whitechapel series that comes off as the perfect copycat, it would be Clay Pipe's.

I don't know if it's considered a fetish if you've only done it once.

The fetish to me wouldn't be the mutilations but the organ removal.

Columbo

In your opinion, would that strengthen the case for Bury?

[Columbo]

And MacKenzies killer! And Liz Jacksons killer!

They must have been around in numbers, the abdominal mutilators.

Unless you are correct, and it IS a rare fetish.

There is the possibility any if these killings could've also been JTR copycats.

Columbo