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Joe Barnett's 'wife' Louisa

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  • #16
    Hi MayBea,

    Thanks for this ….. sounds good … I’ll look for any more information on this Louisa Smith.

    My line of thinking … assume the Census records are correct, so she called herself “Emily Barnett” in 1901 Census and “Louisa Barnett” in 1911 Census. Therefore, she may have been born as “Emily Louisa” or “Louisa Emily”.

    Secondly, it appears Louisa was born in the March quarter, 1856 (based upon her age in 1911 Census and her year born in Raine St infirmary records). She may have got the year wrong, so maybe we look at “Emily Louisa” or “Louisa Emily” born in the March quarter in 1855 -57.

    Finally, “Emily Barnett” said in the 1901 she was born in “St George in the East” and “Louisa” said in 1911 she was born in Bethnal Green. So look for folk born in that area

    There are 12 “Emily Louisa” / “Louisa Emily” born in the St George in the East / Bethnal Green area in the March quarter between 1855 - 57. I thought maybe look at these folk in more detail.

    I’ll PM you that list, if you like.



    • #17
      That's a good idea, Craig.

      I already had a good look a couple of weeks ago at all the Louisa Emilys/Emmas from Bethnal Green, born in 1855 and 56, and eliminated all of them born in the first quarter with the census and BMDs. That includes Louisa Emily Hoyles. My notes have her marrying a Matthew Boocock.


      • #18
        I take it we're aware that "3 Raine Street", or the "Raine Street Infirmary" are otherwise the St George in the East Workhouse Hospital?




        • #19
          I cross checked the Emily Louisa’s born in March quarter in 1855, 1856 and 1857 in districts around Bethnal Green. Most were later married, or died,

          There were two I couldn’t account trace further.

          Emily Louisa Lloyd (FreeBMD , bn Bethnal Green district March qtr 1855). One option – baptism record – of an Emily Lloyd (bn 15 Mar 1855) – parents George (stationer) and Sarah Ann, baptised in St Giles without Cripplegate (how far is that from Bethnal Green ?) . She’s at home with them in 1871.

          Emily Louisa Smith (FreeBMD, bn March 1856, St George in East). This may be the Emily Louisa Smith (baptised April 1856 St George in the East). Parents James John Smith (engineer) and Ellen Collins Smith. 1871 Census she is at home, but working as a servant.


          • #20
            Here is the only possible marriage I found for Emily Louisa Lloyd. It's to a "Cooking" but it's looks more like Cocking on the image.

            Emily Lloyd

            Estimated birth year: abt 1855
            Age: 21
            Spouse Name: Edward Cooking (Cocking)
            Spouse Age: 23
            Record Type: Marriage
            Event Date: 25 Dec 1876
            Parish: Finsbury St Barnabas
            Borough: Islington
            Father Name: George Lloyd
            Spouse Father: Edward Joseph Cooking (Cocking)
            Register Type: Parish Register

            P.S. What I now think may be happening here is that Joseph returned, in 1891, to using his "wife's" name as he did with Kelly. So, instead of a Joseph Barnett, we could be looking for a Joseph Lloyd or Joseph Cocking, for example.

   might be more helpful, if that is the case, because it allows for input of Occupation in the 1891 Census search. Ancestry doesn't.


            • #21
              Hi MayBea
              Yes - I think you're right. I'm sent you PM with additional names


              • #22
                Thanks, Craig. But before we continue with the Emily Louisas, here's another intriguing possibility: Could Joe Barnett's 'wife' be Caroline Maxwell?

                Stan Reid made a joke about it but could she have lied to protect Joe? (Some say it was her husband Henry.)

                Her 'husband' Henry died in 1889. He is listed as 52 so born around 1837.


                I found an interesting Joseph Barnett and Caroline in 1891 so I automatically thought of Maxwell.

                There is a possible hit with a Henry Maxwell, lighterman, 'married' to a Mary Ann living in Shadwell on Red Lion Street in 1881 where Joe lived and died. He was born in 1844 in Bermondsey but its only seven years off in age to our Henry.


                • #23
                  Here is the wife of the only Henry Maxwell living near Whitechapel in 1881:

                  Mary A. Maxwell

                  Age: 29
                  Estimated birth year: abt 1852
                  Relationship to Head: Wife
                  Spouse:Henry W. Maxwell
                  Gender: Female
                  Where born: Bermondsey, Surrey, England
                  Civil Parish: Wapping
                  County/Island: London
                  Country: England
                  Street address: 19A Red Lion Street
                  Marital Status:Married
                  Occupation: Wife
                  Registration district: Stepney
                  Sub-registration district: Shadwell
                  Household Members:

                  Henry W. Maxwell 36 Lighterman, born Bermondsey
                  Mary A. Maxwell 29
                  Henry W. Maxwell 10 Bermondsey
                  George T. Maxwell 8 Wapping
                  Alfred C. Maxwell 6 Wapping

                  I can't find him in 1891 so he could be our Henry Maxwell who died in 1889, Caroline's 'husband'.


                  • #24
                    Mary Ann Maxwell goes by Martha Maxwell in 1871.

                    Before that, I believe she was Mary Ann Steers, born Bermondsey 1851, and married in Bermondsey in 1869.


                    • #25
                      There's a family tree on Ancestry with Mary Ann Steers/Maxwell. She died in 1908 so she's not our Louisa. She's a widow in St. George in the East in 1901.

                      She and Henry W. Maxwell are not found in 1891 and there's no date of death for Henry so I'm guessing he could still be in the running as Caroline Maxwell's 'husband' if he left Mary Ann. A lighterman and a "night watchman" are not that far apart, are they?


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by MayBea View Post
                        A lighterman and a "night watchman" are not that far apart, are they?
                        To answer my own question, a lighterman has nothing to do with lights. He's actually a boatman. A lighter in a boat.

                        So I don't think I have the right Henry Maxwell. His son Alfred Charles marries in 1896 and Henry is still listed as a lighterman and not listed as deceased. Our Henry died in 1889.


                        • #27
                          Here's a Henry Maxwell who's a night watchman

                          1881 Census

                          Henry Maxwell
                          Age: 50
                          Estimated birth year: abt 1831
                          Relationship to Head: Head
                          Spouse: Ellen Maxwell
                          Gender: Male
                          Where born: Ireland
                          Civil Parish: Gillingham
                          County/Island: Kent
                          Country: England
                          Street address: 64 Fox St
                          Marital Status: Married
                          Occupation: Night Watchman
                          Registration district: Medway
                          Sub-registration district: Gillingham

                          Ellen Maxwell 49, Accrington, Lancashire
                          John A. Maxwell 18
                          Francis Maxwell 12
                          Samuel Maxwell 10
                          William H. Maxwell 7


                          • #28
                            Update: Scratch this Henry Maxwell, night watchman, I posted above! He is still alive in 1891 visiting his oldest son John Albert in St. Pancras.

                            Here's is a Caroline Maxwell sentenced for larceny in 1874:

                            England & Wales, Criminal Registers, 1791-1892 about Caroline Maxwell
                            Name: Caroline Maxwell
                            Crime: Larceny
                            Date of Trial: 13 Apr 1874
                            Trial Year: 1874
                            Location of Trial: Middlesex, England
                            Sentence: Imprisonment 3 Months


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by MayBea View Post
                              Maria may have also gone by the name Mary if she is the 'pal' living in the room opposite Mary Jane's right after the murder, interviewed for this November 11, 1888, Syracuse Herald article.

                              Actually, the Mary from this November 11 article can't be Maria Harvey. Mary says she heard Mary Kelly singing the night of the murder. This must be Mary Ann Cox.

                              There's a little girl named Kate living with her. Could this be the child her niece said she had?


                              I don't think Cox has been officially identified and I'm brought back to Craig H's theory that she might be Barnett's wife.


                              • #30
                                It is actually the little red-haired girl, Kate, who said she heard Mary singing in the November 11 article:

                                "The girl with the red hair did not think it wonderful that no one had heard any sound of the murder. Someone was always drunk and yelling in Miller court, and she rightly guessed that a woman being beaten would make as much noise as one cut up, so that the murder would not be noticed. For her part she was sure to imagine murder in every direction now. She had strong mind, however, had not had any beer and did not cry. She knew positively that Mary Jane was alive at 1 o'clock, for at that hour she had heard her singing "Sweet Violets" to whoever was in her room. "

                                Perhaps they didn't take Kate's statement at the time of the murder because she was too young.

                                The friend of Mary Kelly made Kate "swear an oath" to stay with her that night, so she can't really be her daughter. Since she lives directly across from Mary's, I'm thinking this is Julia Venturnay. Cox lived further up the court.