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Joe Barnett's 'wife' Louisa

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  • Joe Barnett's 'wife' Louisa

    Joseph Barnett's missing years are still in question. Find him may not help identify the Ripper but determining his whereabouts and identifying his 'wife' Louisa might still be a good exercise.

    The missing years are the ones between 1888 and 1906. Although, I do believe that the Joseph and Emily Barnet found in 1901 living on Old Gravel Lane are the correct ones, the verdict on that identification is not unanimous.

    Let's start with that Joseph and Emily Barnet and with a Mrs. No Name Barnet found by Paddy.

    1891 Census

    Mrs. Not Know Barnet (listed as West K Barnet)
    Head
    Married
    35
    Spinner in the Roper M T
    b. Wapping
    3 Periwinkle Street, Radcliffe
    Mary White, 21, single, boarder

  • #2
    Hi May,

    Barnett hasn't yet been traced between 1888 and 1897. There are entries in the Raine Street Infirmary records from that point which are almost certainly 'our' Joseph and Louisa Barnett; and which mean that they were living very close to later known addresses for Joseph Barnett - it all ties together. My 1901 identification may not be unanimously accepted; yet there is strong circumstantial evidence which supports it. We can be pretty sure that the Barnetts were living close by at the time and Gravel Lane is a stone's throw away from where we see them later on.

    Where they were prior to the late 1890's I haven't been able to determine; although there are several reasons why we may not be able to trace them.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you for the correction, Sally. I'd forgotten about the 1897 record.

      So, what do you think of Mrs. N.K. Barnett from Radcliffe born in Wapping?

      I'm not exactly sure where Emily Barnett was born (is it St. George in the East?) but the real Joe Barnett had residences in Wapping, and Wapping borders Shadwell and St. George in the East.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by MayBea View Post
        Thank you for the correction, Sally. I'd forgotten about the 1897 record.

        So, what do you think of Mrs. N.K. Barnett from Radcliffe born in Wapping?

        I'm not exactly sure where Emily Barnett was born (is it St. George in the East?) but the real Joe Barnett had residences in Wapping, and Wapping borders Shadwell and St. George in the East.
        Hi May,

        Thanks - I think Louisa Barnett was born in Bethnal Green according to the records we can assign to her with confidence. Mrs. N.K. Barnett was born at the right time, though; and wasn't there in 1901, so you never know.

        It's not impossible, of course, but I'm not sure how you'd take it any further; considering that there is so little information about Mrs. Not Known to start with.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Sally View Post
          ...It's not impossible, of course, but I'm not sure how you'd take it any further;...
          The only thing I thought of doing was trying to go with the given details (birthplace, age and two given names used) and checking out all the "Louisa Emilys" born in Bethnal Green in 1855 and 1856 and trying to eliminate them one by one by cross-referencing with marriage and census records.

          This exercise has left me with one candidate born Louisa Emma Beton in 1855. She goes by Louisa Emma Beton in 1871 and I think she goes by Emma Beaton in 1881.


          Births Jun 1855

          Beton Louisa Emma Bethnal G 1c 318


          1881

          Emma Beaton

          >Age 28
          > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
          > Relationship to Head: Casual
          > Gender: Female
          > Where born: London, Middlesex, England
          > Civil Parish: St Andrews
          > County/Island: London
          > Country: England
          > Street address: "City of London Wkhs" Robin Hood CT
          > Occupation: Domestic Serv
          > Registration district: London City
          > Sub-registration district: St Bride

          Comment


          • #6
            Regarding Barnett in 1891

            Hi all,
            Slighty off topic for this thread and probably a long shot-sorry- but regarding Barnett in 1891; Chris Scot discovered that Joseph's mother, Catherine, married Thomas Allman in 1885 and I noticed that there is a Joseph Allman b c 1858 St George in the East in the 1891 census who is a patient at St George in the East Infirmary. I can't seem to locate the same man in any other census, although I have only done a quick skim using the obvious details and not tried any other methods so he may be there and I've missed him. Joseph Allman was a dock labourer in 1891. I'm just chucking this in in case anyone would like to follow it up in the Infirmary records or creed registers.
            ,,`,, Debs ,,`,,

            I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi Debs,

              Thanks for posting that information - I was straight off to the infirmary records, just in case!

              There are two entries in the index for Raine Street Infirmary. The first, [1890/91] is as follows:

              Allman, Joseph, age 32 admitted 15/12/1890 discharged 02/02/2891 [no complaint recorded in index]

              The second is from the 1894/5 index:

              Allman, Joseph, age 38, admitted 14th January 1895, discharged 19th January 1895 - Dead.

              Again, no complaint is given in the index - although it generally is. A look at the Admission/Discharge registers might tell us more.

              I noted a John Allman [b. c.1859] a Richard Allman [b. 1843] and a Sarah Allman [b.bc.1820] in there as well - perhaps all part of the same family.

              Richard Allman seems likely to be a Richard Allman born in 1843 who came from Ireland and lived in Spitalfields/St George in the East.

              In any event, poor Joseph Allman was dead by early 1895; so sadly not 'our' Joseph.

              Back to the drawing board...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Sally View Post
                Hi Debs,

                Thanks for posting that information - I was straight off to the infirmary records, just in case!

                There are two entries in the index for Raine Street Infirmary. The first, [1890/91] is as follows:

                Allman, Joseph, age 32 admitted 15/12/1890 discharged 02/02/2891 [no complaint recorded in index]

                The second is from the 1894/5 index:

                Allman, Joseph, age 38, admitted 14th January 1895, discharged 19th January 1895 - Dead.

                Again, no complaint is given in the index - although it generally is. A look at the Admission/Discharge registers might tell us more.

                I noted a John Allman [b. c.1859] a Richard Allman [b. 1843] and a Sarah Allman [b.bc.1820] in there as well - perhaps all part of the same family.

                Richard Allman seems likely to be a Richard Allman born in 1843 who came from Ireland and lived in Spitalfields/St George in the East.

                In any event, poor Joseph Allman was dead by early 1895; so sadly not 'our' Joseph.

                Back to the drawing board...
                Hi Sally, thanks very much for doing that! I knew it was a long shot -never mind.
                ,,`,, Debs ,,`,,

                I am not DJA. He's called Dave.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Returning to Craig H's Louisa theory based on the Wheeling article which says Joe took up with one of the witnesses at the inquest, what about Maria Harvey?

                  I think Craig prematurely eliminated her because she allegedly was married with kids.

                  Chris Scott said the Maria Harvey married to Charles with 5 kids in 1881 and 7 in 1891 was not a definite ID, only possible.

                  So do we have another person with "missing years", who could be Louisa?

                  http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=6839&page=4

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Here is the press report stating that Maria Harvey was a young woman.

                    The Star
                    Largest Circulation of Any Evening Paper in the Kingdom.
                    LONDON. SATURDAY, 10 NOVEMBER, 1888.

                    As far as has been at present ascertained, the murdered woman was last seen alive shortly after eleven o'clock on Thursday night by Mrs. Harvey, a young woman who was on intimate terms with her, and who lives in New-court, Dorset-street.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Times (London)
                      Saturday, November 10, 1888
                      ANOTHER WHITECHAPEL MURDER

                      The young woman Harvey, who had slept with the deceased on several occasions...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Maria may have also gone by the name Mary if she is the 'pal' living in the room opposite Mary Jane's right after the murder, interviewed for this November 11, 1888, Syracuse Herald article.

                        http://www.casebook.org/press_report...l?printer=true

                        In January 1889, there was a prostitute named Mary Ann Cluley living at "24 Miller's Court".

                        Some believe Maria Harvey could be the Kate living in 13 Millers court in December of 1889. But I'm wondering if Kate couldn't be the "red haired girl" named Kate staying sometimes with 'Mary' from the January reports.

                        http://forum.casebook.org/showthread...ate+mary+kelly
                        Last edited by MayBea; 06-07-2014, 04:57 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Here is the link to the recovered thread on Mary Ann Cluley. She was very likely the one born c. 1866 and living in Bethnal Green in 1881 with her mother Mary. This Mary Ann would be 10 years too young to be "Louisa".

                          http://forum.casebook.org/archive/index.php/t-63.html

                          But I guess Cluley or Louisa could still be Maria Harvey.
                          Last edited by MayBea; 06-09-2014, 12:41 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Emily Louisa ?

                            I remember someone mentioned before that Joseph Barnett's wife may have been "Emily Louisa".

                            This would explain why she gave her name as "Emily Barnett" in 1901 Census and then "Louisa Barnett" in 1911 Census.

                            I found :
                            Emily Louisa Smith
                            Bn March qtr 1856, St George in the East district (sparked my interest as I think Louisa Barnett was born in that quarter based upon Raine St infirmary records)

                            Baptism records have parents as James John Smith and Ellen Collins Smith.
                            In the 1861 Census, we find James Smith (born 1814 in Liverpool), his wife Ellen and their children Ellen, James and Emily.

                            In the 1871 Census, Emily is still living at home but working as a servant.

                            I cant find her in 1881 Census

                            Can anyone weave their magic to see if they can find her ???

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi, Craig. I think it was me who first suggested looking at all the Louisa Emilys and Emily Louisas.

                              Re. Emily Louisa Smith:

                              I cross-reference all the marriages of Emily Louisa Smiths between 1871 and 1881 and could find no match. If she was still unmarried, this could be her (her marital status is not given and all the residents are listed as born in Limehouse:

                              1881 Census
                              Louisa Smith

                              Age: 25
                              Estimated birth year: abt 1856
                              Gender:Female
                              Where born: Limehouse
                              Civil Parish: Limehouse
                              Street address: 50 Brenton St
                              Occupation: Servant
                              Registration district: Stepney
                              Sub-registration district: Limehouse

                              Thomas Rowell 40
                              Eliza Rowell 30
                              Thomas Rowell 5
                              Eliza Rowell 4
                              Eliza King 65
                              Ann Rowell 65
                              Louisa Smith 25

                              Comment

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