Barnett's candidacy - a few issues

[Sally]

Thanks Sally.

The only Wheeling Register article I've seen is the one referring to Joseph Barnett. Were there other articles on JTR ? Were they accurate ?

Hi Craig,

The Wheeling Register was a daily paper published in Wheeling, Ohio. The Wheeling Register ran from 1878-1935. It was preceded by the The Daily Register [1863-64] and The Wheeling Daily Register [1864-78] and succeeded by The Wheeling News Register [1935-present (with The Intelligencer)]

The archive is available online for a subscription fee here:

http://www.genealogybank.com/gbnk/

I haven't personally searched the archive. I am however aware of another report from the same paper which claims that the witness George Hutchinson was paid a sum of £5 for his information to the police following the Kelly murder. As with the stories in the Wheeling Register concerning Barnett; this claim is unsubstantiated and is not, to my knowledge, repeated elsewhere.

The bottom line is that there is no evidence to support the claims made by the Wheeling Register with respect to either Barnett or Hutchinson.

[GUT]

G'day all

If Joe was obviously drunk at the inquest wouldn't you expect at least many news reports to have carried the information?

I for one would not be surprised if he had a "stiffener" before attending the inquest.

[Sally]

Hi Richard.

Why must the Wheeling register be treated with caution?
Because it is not repeated in other newspaper,, or not what is written down in books ..is that a good enough ?

Yes, that's about it. Press articles are not always a wholly objective source, Richard - I'm sure you'd agree. Newspapers have a very simple agenda, which is to sell copy. Its common knowledge that many press reports are, shall we say, 'enhanced' for this purpose.

The Wheeling Register was based in Ohio, not London. For the general readership of the paper the horrors in Whitechapel were probably little more than a European scandal; and from what I've seen, I think the paper perfectly fulfilled local expectations.

Is in inconceivable that Barnett had some alcohol before the inquest, or is inconceivable that he may have tied up with another court resident, in a physical sense.?
Just because the report does not tally with others, does not dismiss it as phoney....
Regard Richard.

No, no, it's not inconceivable, Richard. I'm not suggesting that it is. I'm saying that there is no evidence for the assertions made by the Wheeling Register; nothing to corroborate the tales. Nothing, no other contemporary source yet discovered that backs up the Wheeling Register - and its not as if there isn't sufficient newspaper coverage to look at, is it?

That's usually a clue that what you're looking at may not be entirely reliable. If you choose to put faith in the Wheeling Register, it is necessary to explain:

* How it is correct and every other contemporary source is wrong.
*How it might have obtained the correct information when no other contemporary newspaper - including highly respected, local papers - could apparently do so.

At best, The Wheeling Register should be treated with caution. It certainly shouldn't form the basis of any argument or research.

[Sally]

G'day all

If Joe was obviously drunk at the inquest wouldn't you expect at least many news reports to have carried the information?

I for one would not be surprised if he had a "stiffener" before attending the inquest.

Hey Gut,

Yes, you would expect so. And I'm sure that if Bad Joe Barnett had actually shacked up with a notorious local chick we'd be seeing it in dozens of local papers.

Yet outside of the Wheeling Register there's a deafening silence. We can all draw our own conclusions from that.

*P.S. Indeed. If I'd been him I probably would've been 'roaring drunk' at the inquest.

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
Again in defence of The Wheeling register , the account of Hutchinson being paid five times his normal salary,surely is a pointer to the credibility of this sheet..especially as this was a rare publication, and it corresponds with Reg Hutchinson's tale of his father being paid a sum of five pounds, which would be approx a labourer's weekly wage x 5
As far as we know this article, was not discovered until a few years ago, long after the tale of payment came about, from sources Topping/Reg Hutchinson.
If the Wheeling register was the only publication which mentioned payment , then surely only the real person the money was paid too, would know...
This would indicate that the payment suggestion made in 1888,was most likely accurate, that being the case, why not Barnett's alcohol consumption, and new relationship.?.
Regards Richard.

[Sally]

Hi,
Again in defence of The Wheeling register , the account of Hutchinson being paid five times his normal salary,surely is a pointer to the credibility of this sheet..especially as this was a rare publication, and it corresponds with Reg Hutchinson's tale of his father being paid a sum of five pounds, which would be approx a labourer's weekly wage x 5
As far as we know this article, was not discovered until a few years ago, long after the tale of payment came about, from sources Topping/Reg Hutchinson.
If the Wheeling register was the only publication which mentioned payment , then surely only the real person the money was paid too, would know...
This would indicate that the payment suggestion made in 1888,was most likely accurate, that being the case, why not Barnett's alcohol consumption, and new relationship.?.
Regards Richard.

Hi Richard,

This isn't [and isn't going to be] a Hutchinson thread, so I'll be brief.

First - The Wheeling Register was a daily publication I think. It's only claim to rarity would be if it had been inaccessible to the Ripperological community. It isn't now, as it can be accessed online [see above].

Second - You are quite right, it was Reg Hutchinson who claimed that his father had been paid for his trouble. Tying that to the report in The Wheeling Register is problematic. I can go through it if you like, but others have done so quite succinctly elsewhere if memory serves.

Third - you are circumnavigating the issue, which is that neither tale is corroborated elsewhere in a contemporary source. It is hardly feasible that The Wheeling Register was the only publication to know the truth. Sorry.

[GUT]

Just a Thought

Could the report the wheeling register was working from have said that Joe was "obviously effected" which may have meant emotional but some may interpret as intoxicated?

Yet another reason to question press reports that are produced without having the writer on the scene in my opinion.

[Craig H]

I understand the Wheeling Register was a "trashy mag". However, I wonder if they may have got it right on this point. It would appear from the article that someone spoke with Joseph or the woman with whom he moved in.

More importantly, it's too much of a co-incidence. Joseph and Louisa said they were married 23 years, so 1881. Joseph started living with soneone in that 2 month period after MJK was killed, and the newspaper now suggests a name.

The second co-incidence is Mary Ann had no children in her 10 year marriage to William Emblen and then "Louisa" and Joseph also had no children.

The third co-incidence is both Louisa and Mary Ann were born in the March quarter.

The fourth co-incidence is there is no evidence of a Mary Ann Cox in 1891 Census.

I don't get the name change from "Mary Ann" to "Louisa".

There's no hard proof. I just think it's worth consideration. Any other suggestions on how to test if it's true ?

[Livia]

Wheeling is in Ohio County in West Virginia.

Not a booming metropolis and unlikely to have
footed the bill to send a reporter over to London.

A New York City daily or weekly probably did though, I know they
did for the Maybrick case.

Wheeling probably got their news like everyone else did
in the country and that is by wire. And if the story
was lacking in salacious details, it's probable that
some editor added them.

(By comparison, in 1900, the First District which
was made up of these 8 counties: Brook, Hancock,
Harrison, Lewis, Marion, Marshall, Ohio and Wetzel,
and had a total (voter) population of 188,360. In 2012,
the population for Wheeling was 28,213.)

[Craig H]

Wheeling Register

It's interesting to find out more about the Wheeling Register. I took out a 30 day subscription and downloaded articles it published about the Whitechapel murders.

Attached is the full article which mentions Joseph Barnett moving in with someone who testified. It's a fairly detailed article which also covers other incidents at that time. It certainly reads as if the writer was in Whitechapel at the time and spoke to people.

[Craig H]

Also attached are two more articles from the Wheeling Register :- one of 4 September about Mary Ann Nichols death and one from 9 November.

They are both fairly detailed, and read as would articles in a London based paper. This suggests that the articles were written by someone in London and have some credibility.

[GUT]

G'day Craig

To me all it suggests is that they were getting information from London.

Not that they had a reporter there.

And indeed when you read about small wicked black eyes and a strange gait, short and thick set and scared hundreds of women to death... well enough said. Gee they even know where he lives and his occupation.

The report about MJK is as bad, the police are using three bloodhounds [sure Warren wanted too use two but by then only had one to hand, but they were never used], her head was cut off WHAT THE... Her name was believed to be Lizzie Fisher but she was known as Mary Jones. She lived on the 2nd floor? And a LANDLADY went to the door, was that Mr McCarthy or Mr Bower [after a sex change.

And to you this all amounts to accurate reporting.

In all honesty to me it actually reads like they had a brief resumee and fleshed it out.

Only the big agencies or big papers had reporters overseas the rest were lodged by what are today called correspondents or purchased from agencies.

[Brenda]

.

I'm starting to get famous for chiming in with stuff I remember from the old boards that I can never prove existed, but..........

I remember speculation back in the day that old Joe's echolalia might have been the reason people thought he was drunk. It's plausible.

[Craig H]

Hi GUT,

Thanks for reply. My apologies if my previous post implied the Wheeling Register was totally accurate. You're right - there were some clear factual errors in their article on MJK murder - in the same way today's articles sometimes have errors.

However the "Gossip" article implies the writer spoke to Joseph or the woman.

I just think it 's an amazing co-incidence that Joseph and Louisa married sometime in November-December 1888, and this article said Joseph moved in with someone who testified at inquest.

You're more experienced than me in this. How can we test if idea is right ??

[GUT]

G'day Craig H

Thanks for reply. My apologies if my previous post implied the Wheeling Register was totally accurate. You're right - there were some clear factual errors in their article on MJK murder - in the same way today's articles sometimes have errors.

No need to appologise for anything, my real point is that the two articles you posted are riddled with them and that in my opinion s crucial when considering anything else they publish, unfortunately they don't say who wrote them of if they were from an agency.

However the "Gossip" article implies the writer spoke to Joseph or the woman.

To me the crucial word is "implies" and as I said given what is in the other articles I have to take what they say with more than just a grain of salt.

If similar was in any other newspaper of the time it would carry a lot more weight.

I just think it 's an amazing co-incidence that Joseph and Louisa married sometime in November-December 1888, and this article said Joseph moved in with someone who testified at inquest.

Yes and it is worth looking at, but as this thread show, WHO and how to prove it.

You're more experienced than me in this.

I don't know you so can't comment on this.

How can we test if idea is right ??

Well as outlined in the thread, census, directories, BDM all the usual spots of researching history.