Barnett's candidacy - a few issues

[Paddy]

Joseph Edward Barnett

Hi Maybea,
Yes you are right, I remember you mentioning that now...
Blast ! I had even found a possible death for a Sarah that married a Joseph Edward Barnett who seemed to be the same chap
....Thats out then...

Pat......................

[MayBea]

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: Joseph Edward Barnett. Baptised on 13 Jun 1852
Father's Name Joseph Edward Barnett

The rootsweb poster claims Joseph Edward Barnet/Barnett, who married Emily Steele, was born in 1872, father Robert, and he died in 1950.

Perhaps she got the generations wrong as she has Joseph Edward Barnett having a son Joseph Edward.

Either way, born in 72 or 52, it would eliminate Joseph Barnet from 1901 which isn't what I was trying to do.

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/BARNETT/2007-06/1182060881

[GUT]

G'day Pat

Sent you a PM Thanks..

[Paddy]

Joseph Edward Barnett

Maybea, the marriage you found of Joseph Edward Barnett and Emily Steel in 1899 could be right, as I have found a birth of a Joseph Edward Barnett born Whitechapel in 1852. The dates would fit in well with Joseph and Emily. . Father Joseph was a horse butcher.

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: Joseph Edward Barnett. Baptised on 13 Jun 1852
Father's Name Joseph Edward Barnett
Mother's name Mary Ann Barnett
Parish or Poor Law Union: Whitechapel St Mary
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Parish Registers

Pat.....................................

[Paddy]

Family History

Hi GUT if you want to private message me details of where your stuck I dont mind having a search for you?

Pat....................

[GUT]

I need someone to teach me where to look, to help my family history research, totally stuck in one strand at about 1700, though another line I'm back to 1300's.

[MayBea]

Thanks, GUT. I threw that one to a fellow member and he found it for me.

The father's name is Joseph instead of James, but the Mary Ann Cox who married William Emblen was definitely Mary Ann E, just like Mary Ann E Emblen/Holman from 1900.

Marriages Jun 1878
COX Mary Ann E Bethnal Green 1c 653
EMBLEN William John J Bethnal Green 1c 653

It's too bad, because I liked Craig's Cox theory, but it looks like she's eliminated from contention as Barnett's wife.

[GUT]

G'day MayBea

You never cease to amaze.

[MayBea]

The only fit was Mary Ann Cox who married William John James Emblin in June 1878 ( have their certificate). William then died in September 1888 in Poplar district (I’ve ordered his death certificate).

In the 1881 Census, William Emblen (surname slightly different) is living with wife Mary Ann at 65 Canrobert St, Bethnal Green with Mary Ann’s sister Alice and brother Henry.

There is a marriage in the third quarter of 1900 of a Mary Ann E Emblen.

Marriages Sep 1900 (>99%)

Dowden Thomas George Bethnal G. 1c 319
Emblen Mary Ann E Bethnal G. 1c 319
Holman John Bethnal G. 1c 319
Styles Jessie Diana Bethnal G. 1c 319

She married John Holman. The marriage certificate for the Sept. 24, 1900 marriage states she is a widow, 45, occupation charing, address 19 Viaduct, father Joseph Cox, deceased.

[MayBea]

This genealogical site has Joseph Edward Barnet/Barnett and Emily ne. Steele as about 20 years younger than Joseph and Emily from the 1901 Census.

http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.co...-06/1182060881

It also has a son, Joseph, born 1899. I don't see a son on the census record posted by Sally. Could it be on the next page?

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=5320

[MayBea]

The 1901 Joe listed as a 'Dock Labourer' isn't an issue as far as I can see ... Barnett's wife listed as 'Emily' may just mean that she went by more than one name, as many did. Note also that this couple, like Joe and Louisa, have no children....More than anything else, I find the close proximity of the residence at 18 New Gravel Lane to the other recorded residences of Barnett to support the match.

I found a marriage in 1899 between a Joseph Edward Barnet and an Emily Steele in Mile End

Marriages Jun 1899 (>99%)

Askew Eleanor Mile End 1c 705
Barnet Joseph Edward Mile End 1c 705
Steele Emily Mile End 1c 705
Williams Walter Edward Mile End 1c 705

This Joe and Emily did get married. A Walter E. Williams has been found with an Eleanor.

1901 England Census about Eleanor Williams
Name: Eleanor Williams
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Relation to Head: Wife
Gender: Female
Spouse: Walter E Williams
Birth Place: Hackney, London, England
Civil Parish: Hackney
Ecclesiastical parish: St Luke Homerton
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Hackney
Sub-registration district: South-East Hackney
Eleanor Williams 6
Percy Williams 1
Percy Williams 1 month

[MayBea]

I think this Joe can be easily traced via the census. He was a greengrocer in effect.

I think you're right, Sally. There is a Joseph Barnett/Flora 49 and 47, so the right ages +/-2 years, in the 1911 Census.

We already have Joe and his wife in 1911 so it doesn't look like they're our Joseph or Louisa.

[Sam Flynn]

It appears to have included fish-sellers as early as Victorian times according to the Dictionary of Victorian London (1851).

Thanks for that, May - more info than the OED!

Nonetheless, Joe Barnett was never a "monger" (seller) of fish, as far as I know, only a porter at the market. When - after losing his porter's job - he was forced to hawking stuff on the street, he was a monger of the traditional fruit'n'veg variety.

[MayBea]

I like this Joe, too, MayBea, but wasn't the generalisation of "costermonger" to cover fish-sellers was a fairly recent development?...

It appears to have included fish-sellers as early as Victorian times according to the Dictionary of Victorian London (1851).

The number of costermongers, -that it is to say, of those street-sellers attending the London "green" and "fish markets," -appears to be, from the best data at my command, now 30,000 men, women, and children.
http://www.victorianlondon.org/publi.../mayhew1-1.htm

Could this Joe have been, or been listed as, a general fruit seller/costermonger, and costermonger was scratched out to make him specifically an orange hawker, because of the large number of costermongers?

[Sally]

I think this Joe can be easily traced via the census. He was a greengrocer in effect.