Barnett's candidacy - a few issues

[Craig H]

Hi all,

First time poster here …. but have been reading your posts with great interest.

My interest in Joseph Barnett came from looking again at the more reliable witness descriptions of JTR :- around 5’6” height, 30 – 35 y.o., moustache, deer stalker hat (what’s with the hat ????) and able to have a conversation with the victim (laughing, etc).

The Bruce Paley book was excellent.

You’ve talked about Leanne Perry’s book “Catch me when you can”. Can I buy it anywhere or get a soft copy ?

I read some posts about identifying who Joseph Barnett married, His 1911 Census record said he was married to Louisa for 23 years which suggests he moved in with someone almost immediately after Mary Kelly’s death.

Do we know his wife’s maiden name ? I’m trying to get an obituary or death notice from when Joseph and Louisa died in November 1926 which might shed some light on why he does not appear in the 1891 or 1901 Census. Maybe he was living with Louisa (not officially married) and may have used her name in the census ?

Craig

[GUT]

G'day Hawkecr

Welcome, hope you enjoy.

I think Joe is an interesting character.

However the description would fit so many men n 1888, my dad fits it my son probably even better.

Personally I think if Joe did anything it was only Mary. Just my take.

[MayBea]

Do we know his wife’s maiden name ?... Maybe he was living with Louisa (not officially married) and may have used her name in the census ?

All we know so far is that Louisa died in 1926 Nov. and FreeBMD says she was 70. Without a marriage, the only way to find her maiden name is to look at all the Louisas born about 1856.

There are 11 Louisas born in East London that year. She would be among that list + or - .

I definitely think Mary's killer knew her based on overkill, and that he was Jack based on timing, victimology, method and escalation.

[Craig H]

Hi May,

I went down the same path about Louisa's born in 1855 - 56.

Louisa Barnett said she was 55 on the 1911 Census. As the Census was taken first week April, 1911, this means that she was born sometime between April 1855 - March 1856.

She said she was born in Bethnal Green. FreeBMD has over 40 Louisa's born in Bethnal Green in the above time frame, 30 in Stepney, and 30 in Whitechapel.

You had mentioned 11 Louisa's . You probably know the London area better than me. Is my list too broad ?

It would be good to find an obituary for Joseph or Louisa from 1926 as it may have a mention from Louisa's family which reveals her maiden name.

Any advice on how to search obituaries from back then ?

Craig

[John Wheat]

If Barnett was Jack the Ripper then where are the other victims? I think it's highly unlikely he would just stop after killing Mary Kelly and considering he lived until 1926 there would surely be several more victims.

[Sally]

Barnett had an alibi. The police questioned him for several hours and found no reason to suspect him. That ought to be enough for anybody interested in the case today, yet up he pops, with predictable regularity.

Beyond the events of 1888, he lived a typical, mundane life until his death in 1926. The evidence suggests that he spent all of that time with one woman -There is no sign whatever to date that he was ever in any sort of trouble with the police; or that he was engaged in any type of criminal activity - let alone murder.

According to his, and Louisa's, 1911 census returns, they had been 'married' since 1888 - the likelihood exists, therefore, that they had already begun a relationship when Kelly was murdered.

If Barnett had already moved on, it doesn't leave much motivation for murder, eh?

Regarding the chances of finding an obituary for either Barnett - about zero, I'd say. Neither was important enough, or wealthy enough, to merit an obituary.

[pinkmoon]

When you look at the photo of Mary Kelly's remains you wonder how someone could do such a thing to a fellow human so to ask as to believe that this monster could go on and live a quite life and not kill again is far fetched.

[MayBea]

You had mentioned 11 Louisa's . You probably know the London area better than me. Is my list too broad ?

Sorry, Craig. The 11 were from "East London", i.e. London City, so not the East End.

However, I found a thread at JtRforums about Barnett's 'wife' possibly being Louisa Rowe. They would actually have been married in 1887.

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=10339

[GUT]

G'day Pinkmoon

When you look at the photo of Mary Kelly's remains you wonder how someone could do such a thing to a fellow human so to ask as to believe that this monster could go on and live a quite life and not kill again is far fetched.

Which seems to be the root of suicide theories and must say I tend to agree I have only seen one worse murder scene and I've seen more than I want to.

[pinkmoon]

Which seems to be the root of suicide theories and must say I tend to agree I have only seen one worse murder scene and I've seen more than I want to.

Hi gut,I think "awfull glut" explains that terrible photo very well indeed I have always found it very hard to believe that our killer could carry on a normal life after Kelly's murder.Over the years we have been given some suspects who have seemed very good however we have been asked to believe that they simply stopped killing I think death or imprisonment is the only explanation for the murders to have ceased.

[GUT]

Pinkmoon

I am simply unable to accept that whoever dd that to Mary Jane was then able to return to normal life, t just doesn't sit well with things I've seen and experienced and the people I knew that did them. Unless the killer was in a total dissociative state, and that only works if MJK was a "one off" don't see him being in that state multiple times as to me , the same assessment of "glut" applies if he did more than one abdominal "operation".

[MayBea]

...Beyond the events of 1888, he lived a typical, mundane life until his death in 1926. The evidence suggests that he spent all of that time with one woman...According to his, and Louisa's, 1911 census returns, they had been 'married' since 1888 - the likelihood exists, therefore, that they had already begun a relationship when Kelly was murdered...

But now, on the Mary boards, we're saying that this Barnett, married to Louisa, can't be the real Barnett because the marriage was real, not common law, and it was in 1887 when he was supposed to be with Mary.

At least, that's how I understand it.

[Craig H]

I've ordered the Joseph Barnett-Louisa Rowe marriage certificate (Sept 1887) which may confirm that this was a different Joseph Barnett.

I've also found a London-based researcher who will look for any family death notices about Louisa Barnett when she died 3 November 1926. Hopefully, someone from her family may have published a notice which will show Louisa's maiden name.

Will come back with any findings.

Also, did Leanne Perry's book "Catch me when you can" reveal anything about this ? Any suggestions on where I can get a copy ?

[Cogidubnus]

Also, did Leanne Perry's book "Catch me when you can" reveal anything about this ? Any suggestions on where I can get a copy ?

Ditto - I've also been searching for this....

All the best

Dave

[Sally]

I've ordered the Joseph Barnett-Louisa Rowe marriage certificate (Sept 1887) which may confirm that this was a different Joseph Barnett.

I've also found a London-based researcher who will look for any family death notices about Louisa Barnett when she died 3 November 1926. Hopefully, someone from her family may have published a notice which will show Louisa's maiden name.

Will come back with any findings.

Also, did Leanne Perry's book "Catch me when you can" reveal anything about this ? Any suggestions on where I can get a copy ?

Hi Hawkecr - Marvellous - I'm so pleased that you've ordered the marriage certificate in question, it'll save me doing it. I look forward to seeing who got married in 1887.

Regarding death notices, I feel bound to say that I don't think you'll have any luck - sorry. It's unlikely that a person of Louisa's social class would have appeared in any death notices or obituaries. Any researcher worth employing should have the decency to tell you that before you part with any cash; so I hope you're not paying for the search.