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  • Barnett in 1911 Census

    1911 Census: 60 Red Lion Street, E.

    Joseph Barnett, Head, 53, Married (23 years), Total children born alive = none, Total children still living = none, Total children who have died = none, Market Porter, Billingsgate, b. Whitechapel, London

    His "wife", Louisa, was in the St George in the East Workhouse on the night of the census.

    Regards,

    Mark

  • #2
    marriage?

    If this Joseph [ Paley's id] was married for 23 years, he would have to have married close to 1888. He would have to have met Louisa very soon after the november event. Up until directly after the death of Kelly he seems not to be involved with someone else. Although there is no record of such a marriage of a Joe Barnett in East London.They could have been living together without an official ceremony. More research is needed.
    Miss Marple

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Miss Marple,

      Thanks for this. You are, of course, quite right. This is Paley's Barnett, although equally the Barnett endorsed by the A-Z, I think. Is there some doubt as to his identity?

      Regards,

      Mark

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi,
        We have now a major advantage over Paley, for we now have the 1911 census avaliable and because of the details of this Barnett, I would suggest that we have have the wrong one, clearly the 23 years married would suggest such a claim would be fair.
        Born Whitchapel yes,
        Market porter yes.
        Married in 1888, or even 1887 NO...
        I agree more research has to come to light.
        Regards Richard.

        Comment


        • #5
          joe in KENT, 1911 census help

          I have never been convinced by Paley's later indentification, I am still intrigued by Joe's lost years and the Kent mystery.The two Kent census entries, marriage to Catherine and birth of children. Joe's eldest brother Denis was born in Kent and it may have been a place familiar to Joe from hop picking.
          Here's the thesis,
          Joe deeply tramatised after the murder of Mary leaves London for Kent, marries and has children. Returns to London later, when Daniel dies
          So here are the entries again.
          1891 Census
          1 True Britton Alley Minster in Sheppy Kent
          Head Joseph Barnett 33 born Spitalfields, labourer
          Catherine, Wife born Bridge Kent
          Florence Daisy age 11 months born Sheerness Kent
          Teresa born Sheerness Kent
          1901 Census
          Yieldstead Stockingbury Kent
          Joseph Barnett 44 born Spitalfields agric labourer
          Catherine 48 born Bridge Kent
          Florence 10 born Sheerness
          The age fits. Now we know Joe was born in Whitechapel rather than Spitalfields but I have searched and no Joseph Barnett was registered as being born in Spitalfields in the late 1850s, but the most traumatic and dramatic events of Joe's life took place in Spitalfields which is still Whitechapel and perhaps that birthplace is a way of connecting with that. We know Joe worked as a casual labourer as well as a fish porter.
          Richard, if you could look up this family on the 1911 census that could really clear things up.
          Miss Marple

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by m_w_r View Post
            1911 Census: 60 Red Lion Street, E.

            Joseph Barnett, Head, 53, Married (23 years), Total children born alive = none, Total children still living = none, Total children who have died = none, Market Porter, Billingsgate, b. Whitechapel, London

            His "wife", Louisa, was in the St George in the East Workhouse on the night of the census.

            Regards,

            Mark
            Hi Mark,
            Do you have any further info on this Louisa Barnett? I am wondering if she had any connections to Hackney at all?
            Thanks
            Debs

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by miss marple View Post
              I have never been convinced by Paley's later indentification, I am still intrigued by Joe's lost years and the Kent mystery.The two Kent census entries, marriage to Catherine and birth of children. Joe's eldest brother Denis was born in Kent and it may have been a place familiar to Joe from hop picking.
              Here's the thesis,
              Joe deeply tramatised after the murder of Mary leaves London for Kent, marries and has children. Returns to London later, when Daniel dies
              So here are the entries again.
              1891 Census
              1 True Britton Alley Minster in Sheppy Kent
              Head Joseph Barnett 33 born Spitalfields, labourer
              Catherine, Wife born Bridge Kent
              Florence Daisy age 11 months born Sheerness Kent
              Teresa born Sheerness Kent
              1901 Census
              Yieldstead Stockingbury Kent
              Joseph Barnett 44 born Spitalfields agric labourer
              Catherine 48 born Bridge Kent
              Florence 10 born Sheerness
              The age fits. Now we know Joe was born in Whitechapel rather than Spitalfields but I have searched and no Joseph Barnett was registered as being born in Spitalfields in the late 1850s, but the most traumatic and dramatic events of Joe's life took place in Spitalfields which is still Whitechapel and perhaps that birthplace is a way of connecting with that. We know Joe worked as a casual labourer as well as a fish porter.
              Richard, if you could look up this family on the 1911 census that could really clear things up.
              Miss Marple
              Hi MM,
              I have looked at a 1911 entry just now for a family I think is the same one you mentioned above.
              The entry shows florence Barnett aged 21, b Sheernes kent, parents, Joseph aged 45(?!) b Spitalfields and Catherine aged 59 b Cantebury Kent. The couple claim to have been married 30 years, although Joseph's section is struck through where these figures appear. They also claim to have only one child and that no children have died (which seems at odds with the 1891 census and daughter Teresa) The family are living at Chatham Kent.
              Pm me your email and I will forward the entry to you for you to have a look at.
              Debs

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by miss marple View Post
                The age fits. Now we know Joe was born in Whitechapel rather than Spitalfields but I have searched and no Joseph Barnett was registered as being born in Spitalfields in the late 1850s
                MM, I was wondering if this could be the Spitalfields born Joseph Barnett?
                This is a christening record for 1857 from the Dockland's ancestors records;

                Day: 05
                Month: July
                Year: 1857
                Forename: Joseph
                Othernames:
                Surname: Barnett
                Fathers forenames: Edward
                Fathers occupation: Compositor
                Mothers forenames: Elizabeth
                Birth date: 03/06/1857
                Address: Osborn Street
                Location of church: Whitechapel
                Parish: St Mary

                Church address: Whitechapel High Street

                Entry No:

                Source Ref: X024/096

                Maybe someone can confirm that Osborn Street, where this Joseph was born, is classed as Spitalfields? I think it may be but not positive.

                Debs

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi Debs,

                  Osborn Street was in Whitechapel, it ran from Brick Lane to the junction of Whitechapel High Street/Whitechapel Road.

                  Click image for larger version

Name:	Osborn Street.jpg
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ID:	655894

                  Rob

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Cheers Rob, just shows what I know about Geography!
                    This is the other Joseph Barnett who's birth was registered in Whitechapel in 1857 anyway.
                    I haven't looked for this one on any census entries, he could still be the Sheppey guy b Spitalfields I guess, I believe even Paley's Joe Barnett gives his birthplace as Aldgate London City in one entry and not whitechapel?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      That's alright Debs. I was in a car last year going to Redhill and the driver was using a Tom Tom and we went round the same roundabout 4 times .

                      I've sent you an e-mail.

                      Rob

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by miss marple View Post
                        If this Joseph [ Paley's id] was married for 23 years, he would have to have married close to 1888. He would have to have met Louisa very soon after the november event. Up until directly after the death of Kelly he seems not to be involved with someone else.
                        Hi miss marple

                        I seem to remember a newspaper article describing Barnett being comforted by women after Kelly's murder 'groupie' style and if so it would be quite possible that he hooked up with one of them around that time.
                        allisvanityandvexationofspirit

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Even I'm not that bad Rob!
                          Got your email this time too, thanks.

                          Hi Stephen, I remember the 'groupie' thing being posted, was it in the 'Wheeling Register' article? I think it went as far as actually saying that Barnett had taken up with a woman since MJK's death didn't it?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Debra A View Post
                            Do you have any further info on this Louisa Barnett? I am wondering if she had any connections to Hackney at all?
                            Hi Debs -

                            1911 Census: 3 Raine Street, St George in the East

                            Louisa Barnett, patient, 55, married (23 years), Total children born alive = none, Total children still living = none, Total children who have died = none, Occupation = nil, b. Bethnal Green, London

                            Hope this helps.

                            Regards,

                            Mark

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Many thanks, Mark.

                              Comment

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