Barnett in 1911 Census

[m_w_r]

1911 Census: 60 Red Lion Street, E.

Joseph Barnett, Head, 53, Married (23 years), Total children born alive = none, Total children still living = none, Total children who have died = none, Market Porter, Billingsgate, b. Whitechapel, London

His "wife", Louisa, was in the St George in the East Workhouse on the night of the census.

Regards,

Mark

[miss marple]

marriage?

If this Joseph [ Paley's id] was married for 23 years, he would have to have married close to 1888. He would have to have met Louisa very soon after the november event. Up until directly after the death of Kelly he seems not to be involved with someone else. Although there is no record of such a marriage of a Joe Barnett in East London.They could have been living together without an official ceremony. More research is needed.
Miss Marple

[m_w_r]

Hi Miss Marple,

Thanks for this. You are, of course, quite right. This is Paley's Barnett, although equally the Barnett endorsed by the A-Z, I think. Is there some doubt as to his identity?

Regards,

Mark

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
We have now a major advantage over Paley, for we now have the 1911 census avaliable and because of the details of this Barnett, I would suggest that we have have the wrong one, clearly the 23 years married would suggest such a claim would be fair.
Born Whitchapel yes,
Market porter yes.
Married in 1888, or even 1887 NO...
I agree more research has to come to light.
Regards Richard.

[miss marple]

joe in KENT, 1911 census help

I have never been convinced by Paley's later indentification, I am still intrigued by Joe's lost years and the Kent mystery.The two Kent census entries, marriage to Catherine and birth of children. Joe's eldest brother Denis was born in Kent and it may have been a place familiar to Joe from hop picking.
Here's the thesis,
Joe deeply tramatised after the murder of Mary leaves London for Kent, marries and has children. Returns to London later, when Daniel dies
So here are the entries again.
1891 Census
1 True Britton Alley Minster in Sheppy Kent
Head Joseph Barnett 33 born Spitalfields, labourer
Catherine, Wife born Bridge Kent
Florence Daisy age 11 months born Sheerness Kent
Teresa born Sheerness Kent
1901 Census
Yieldstead Stockingbury Kent
Joseph Barnett 44 born Spitalfields agric labourer
Catherine 48 born Bridge Kent
Florence 10 born Sheerness
The age fits. Now we know Joe was born in Whitechapel rather than Spitalfields but I have searched and no Joseph Barnett was registered as being born in Spitalfields in the late 1850s, but the most traumatic and dramatic events of Joe's life took place in Spitalfields which is still Whitechapel and perhaps that birthplace is a way of connecting with that. We know Joe worked as a casual labourer as well as a fish porter.
Richard, if you could look up this family on the 1911 census that could really clear things up.
Miss Marple

[Debra A]

1911 Census: 60 Red Lion Street, E.

Joseph Barnett, Head, 53, Married (23 years), Total children born alive = none, Total children still living = none, Total children who have died = none, Market Porter, Billingsgate, b. Whitechapel, London

His "wife", Louisa, was in the St George in the East Workhouse on the night of the census.

Regards,

Mark

Hi Mark,
Do you have any further info on this Louisa Barnett? I am wondering if she had any connections to Hackney at all?
Thanks
Debs

[Debra A]

I have never been convinced by Paley's later indentification, I am still intrigued by Joe's lost years and the Kent mystery.The two Kent census entries, marriage to Catherine and birth of children. Joe's eldest brother Denis was born in Kent and it may have been a place familiar to Joe from hop picking.
Here's the thesis,
Joe deeply tramatised after the murder of Mary leaves London for Kent, marries and has children. Returns to London later, when Daniel dies
So here are the entries again.
1891 Census
1 True Britton Alley Minster in Sheppy Kent
Head Joseph Barnett 33 born Spitalfields, labourer
Catherine, Wife born Bridge Kent
Florence Daisy age 11 months born Sheerness Kent
Teresa born Sheerness Kent
1901 Census
Yieldstead Stockingbury Kent
Joseph Barnett 44 born Spitalfields agric labourer
Catherine 48 born Bridge Kent
Florence 10 born Sheerness
The age fits. Now we know Joe was born in Whitechapel rather than Spitalfields but I have searched and no Joseph Barnett was registered as being born in Spitalfields in the late 1850s, but the most traumatic and dramatic events of Joe's life took place in Spitalfields which is still Whitechapel and perhaps that birthplace is a way of connecting with that. We know Joe worked as a casual labourer as well as a fish porter.
Richard, if you could look up this family on the 1911 census that could really clear things up.
Miss Marple

Hi MM,
I have looked at a 1911 entry just now for a family I think is the same one you mentioned above.
The entry shows florence Barnett aged 21, b Sheernes kent, parents, Joseph aged 45(?!) b Spitalfields and Catherine aged 59 b Cantebury Kent. The couple claim to have been married 30 years, although Joseph's section is struck through where these figures appear. They also claim to have only one child and that no children have died (which seems at odds with the 1891 census and daughter Teresa) The family are living at Chatham Kent.
Pm me your email and I will forward the entry to you for you to have a look at.
Debs

[Debra A]

The age fits. Now we know Joe was born in Whitechapel rather than Spitalfields but I have searched and no Joseph Barnett was registered as being born in Spitalfields in the late 1850s

MM, I was wondering if this could be the Spitalfields born Joseph Barnett?
This is a christening record for 1857 from the Dockland's ancestors records;

Day: 05
Month: July
Year: 1857
Forename: Joseph
Othernames:
Surname: Barnett
Fathers forenames: Edward
Fathers occupation: Compositor
Mothers forenames: Elizabeth
Birth date: 03/06/1857
Address: Osborn Street
Location of church: Whitechapel
Parish: St Mary

Church address: Whitechapel High Street

Entry No:

Source Ref: X024/096

Maybe someone can confirm that Osborn Street, where this Joseph was born, is classed as Spitalfields? I think it may be but not positive.

Debs

[Rob Clack]

Hi Debs,

Osborn Street was in Whitechapel, it ran from Brick Lane to the junction of Whitechapel High Street/Whitechapel Road.



Rob

[Debra A]

Cheers Rob, just shows what I know about Geography!
This is the other Joseph Barnett who's birth was registered in Whitechapel in 1857 anyway.
I haven't looked for this one on any census entries, he could still be the Sheppey guy b Spitalfields I guess, I believe even Paley's Joe Barnett gives his birthplace as Aldgate London City in one entry and not whitechapel?

[Rob Clack]

That's alright Debs. I was in a car last year going to Redhill and the driver was using a Tom Tom and we went round the same roundabout 4 times .

I've sent you an e-mail.

Rob

[Stephen Thomas]

If this Joseph [ Paley's id] was married for 23 years, he would have to have married close to 1888. He would have to have met Louisa very soon after the november event. Up until directly after the death of Kelly he seems not to be involved with someone else.

Hi miss marple

I seem to remember a newspaper article describing Barnett being comforted by women after Kelly's murder 'groupie' style and if so it would be quite possible that he hooked up with one of them around that time.

[Debra A]

Even I'm not that bad Rob!
Got your email this time too, thanks.

Hi Stephen, I remember the 'groupie' thing being posted, was it in the 'Wheeling Register' article? I think it went as far as actually saying that Barnett had taken up with a woman since MJK's death didn't it?

[m_w_r]

Do you have any further info on this Louisa Barnett? I am wondering if she had any connections to Hackney at all?

Hi Debs -

1911 Census: 3 Raine Street, St George in the East

Louisa Barnett, patient, 55, married (23 years), Total children born alive = none, Total children still living = none, Total children who have died = none, Occupation = nil, b. Bethnal Green, London

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Mark

[Debra A]

Many thanks, Mark.