Suspect Witnesses?

[Herlock Sholmes]

That is not a fact, it's your opinion.

It seems that he had gone out for the day, and his wife had expected to move, during his absence, from their lodgings in Berner-street to others in Backchurch-lane.

She is moving. The report says nothing about them both moving.

When he came homewards about a quarter before one he first walked down Berner-street to see if his wife had moved.

In the 21st century, that sort of behaviour would be referred to as stalking.

Of course it wouldn’t. What is also ‘not a fact’ is your assumption that the Schwartz’s had separated. Maybe they had? It’s not relevant unless you’re weaving a fantasy around it.

[Herlock Sholmes]

How do you account for:

* the women in the kitchen not even hearing a whisper from outside?

a) The sounds from outside weren’t loud. b) those in the kitchen were talking and not straining their ears to hear what might have been occurring outside. c) There was singing going on upstairs which was loud enough to be heard from outside. d) There was another room downstairs with members in who were probably not sitting in funereal silence.

* the blood trickling down the yard all the way to the side door, so soon after the murder?

Liquid trickles.

[Geddy2112]

Liquid trickles.

No it oozes....

[New Waterloo]

I realise its probably an interpretation confusion/error but I remain uncomfortable with the fact that every time we look at what Schwartz says the word used for the yard is ‘alley’ this appears a strong indication that Schwartz was not a member of the club or very much aware of it. I believe Schwartz existed and was genuine. His statement fairly detailed so would have said the altercation took place at the entrance to the club. I have no doubt that he would have said that.
any thoughts please
NW

[Herlock Sholmes]

No it oozes....

[Doctored Whatsit]

I believe Schwartz existed and was genuine. His statement fairly detailed so would have said the altercation took place at the entrance to the club. I have no doubt that he would have said that.
any thoughts please
NW

Actually, Schwartz's statement taken by Abberline probably was "fairly detailed", possibly very thoroughly detailed, but we don't have it, we only have a brief summary of the key points quoted by Swanson, and an alternative, and different version, reported in The Star.

One aspect of Schwartz's account that intrigues me is the "Lipski" reference. As Schwartz had only recently arrived in the UK, it is extremely unlikely that he would have known of the Lipski murder and that "Lipski" itself was used as a slur against Jews. Accordingly, when he mentions it, two things seem possible. Either the story was true, as he was unlikely to have known about the Lipski slur, or he was fed the story as his "script" by those who wanted the lie to be told as some sort of protection. If he was given a "script" to learn, he seems strangely to have got it wrong, because he believed that the shout of "Lipski" was directed not at himself but at Pipeman in the police version. The Star version, among its other deviations, has Pipeman calling it to B S man. I think that the Abberline version is the more likely.

There seems to be a suggestion on this thread that Mr and Mrs Schwartz were not living together. This is never stated or even hinted at in the known evidence. His wife was said to be moving from "their lodgings in Berner Street to others in Backchurch Lane." Swanson quotes Schwartz's new address as "Ellen Street, Backchurch Lane" and not still at Berner Street without his wife, and The Star reporter also traced him to Backchurch Lane. There is no evidence suggesting a domestic split.

[c.d.]

One aspect of Schwartz's account that intrigues me is the "Lipski" reference. As Schwartz had only recently arrived in the UK, it is extremely unlikely that he would have known of the Lipski murder and that "Lipski" itself was used as a slur against Jews.

Hello Doc,

If he has Jewish friends who have resided in the area for any length of time and the discussion turns to the discrimination they face on a regular basis I can imagine someone saying something to the effect of some jerk the other day called out Lipski as I walked past. Schwartz responds called out what and it is explained to him.

Ok, maybe a bit of a stretch but I think putting "extremely" in front of unlikely is a stretch as well.

c.d.