Suspect Witnesses?

[NotBlamedForNothing]

If you don't think that, then I misunderstand this statement of yours from post #204: "In those 10 minutes, Stride must make her way to the gateway, wait for BS Man, be killed, and her blood trickle down to the side door of club, and Fanny must be at her doorstep to see a man walk down the street carrying a black bag, but see no one enter the gates."

That is not a reference to what I believe. It's about the difficulty of making sense of the situation. People believe Schwartz and that Fanny witnessed Goldstein shortly before locking up just before 1am. Had Brown been correct that Stride was at the board school corner at about 12:50, it is difficult to see how she makes it into the yard, unseen, without any Schwartz incident. With Schwartz, the situation becomes difficult to the point that completely different scenarios have to be considered, for example #236.

I do agree that if the Schwartz incident occurred after the Brown sighting, then it would be hard for there to be enough time for anyone but BS man to be her killer, assuming that the woman in the Schwartz incident is Stride. About the only way that he wouldn't be her killer would be if he left the area immediately, and either Pipe Man or someone nearby that we don't know about killed her.

There is not enough time for Schwartz after 12:50.

[GBinOz]

How long had she been indoors when she heard the commotion? Perhaps seconds, but more likely she meant a minute or two. The young woman said:

"I met my young man at the top of the street, and then we went for a short walk along the Commercial-road and back again, and down Berner-street. No one passed us then, but just before we said "Good night" a man came along the Commercial-road; and went in the direction of Aldgate."

Hi Andrew,

This makes no sense to me. They walk along and back in Commercial Road and down Berner St. So they are standing down in Berner St, not inside, when they see a man walking along Commercial Rd in the direction of Aldgate. They can't have been far down Berner St, probably at the corner, to have noticed this perambulation, so they were a long way from Dutfields. Of what relevance then is a man walking along Commercial Rd??

Cheers, George

[NotBlamedForNothing]

No. That does not fit her statement.

Right.

... the only man whom I had seen pass through the street previously was a young man carrying a black shiny bag who walked very fast down the street from the Commercial road.

She has spotted him from a long way off. The big question is, when was this?

He passed the club like any member of the public, and within 10 minutes of the murder, like most others in the case.

Does that fit her statement? I don't think it does. 'Previously' could refer to any time between 12:30 and 1am.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

Hi Andrew,

This makes no sense to me. They walk along and back in Commercial Road and down Berner St. So they are standing down in Berner St, not inside, when they see a man walking along Commercial Rd in the direction of Aldgate. They can't have been far down Berner St, probably at the corner, to have noticed this perambulation, so they were a long way from Dutfields. Of what relevance then is a man walking along Commercial Rd??

Cheers, George

Hello George!

The first quote is Fanny Mortimer, not the young woman. I'm saying that the time it would take to walk down Berner St, is similar to the time between Fanny locking up and hearing the commotion.

Taken literally, the Echo report reads as if the couple walked most of the way down Berner St, then somehow, they see the man walking along Commercial Rd. What I'm saying is that the young woman's reference to "just before" gives then time to see the man, then the gentleman walks his lady friend home.

The man they saw "just before" saying good night to each other, is very likely of no relevance, as you suggest.