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Alternative entrences / exits to #29 Hanbury crime scene?

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  • Alternative entrences / exits to #29 Hanbury crime scene?

    Just curious, but with the multiple "yards" separated by fences in the back of #29 Hanbury, were the other buildings used as often, or in the same manner as #29 was?

    I'm trying to word this right. But from many things I have read or seen about this murder, it is often mentioned that a lot of people lived at #29 Hanbury and that local prostitutes were aware that people were coming and going at all times of night and many of them used that back yard to do their business.

    My question is, assuming the killer and his victim entered the yard through #29, is it possible that he made good his escape from one of the other buildings? Or did he just walk back through #29?

    I am having a hard time grasping the floorplan on #29 (and the other buildings) and I don't really know if the neighboring buildings had the some living situation as #29. Any help with these things would be appreciated. It's something I always come back to. I would love to see a detailed floor plan for #29 if anyone knows of one.

  • #2
    I'm not sure if this helps but here is an old thread with additional photos and diagrams:

    http://forum.casebook.org/showthread...ry+St.+passage

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    • #3
      Somebody in the other thread appears to believe that the killer escaped laterally by jumping a fence

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      • #4
        In my copy of 'The London of Jack the Ripper (Page 61-62) No 29 is described as 'resembling many of the other terraced houses along the street' ie down at heel ex Huguenot weavers houses, with big sash windows (for the light.)

        To the left of no 29 was a similar lodging house, to its right a mangling house.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Rosella View Post
          In my copy of 'The London of Jack the Ripper (Page 61-62) No 29 is described as 'resembling many of the other terraced houses along the street' ie down at heel ex Huguenot weavers houses, with big sash windows (for the light.)

          To the left of no 29 was a similar lodging house, to its right a mangling house.
          From memory, I believe that Albert Cadosch, his father and stepmother, were just some of a number of occupants living at No.27. I don't know if Alice and the children were living with him at the material time. They may have been, but did apparently spend some of their time with Alice's parents near Colchester.
          "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

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          • #6
            I believe 17 people lived inside 29 Hanbury, with a cats meats shop at ground level, facing the street. Many neighboring windows looked into the backyard of Hanbury, which means that the killer risked discovery from quite a few angles.

            The problem with him jumping fences is obviously the neighbors windows...many of which, it is said, were open that night. Its likely he walked out the way he came in, via the corridor from the yard to the front door. If that's accurate, then the killer must have been someone who could walk the streets with confidence with blood on him...at 5 in the morning.

            Kinda narrows the field, if that's the case.

            Cheers
            Michael Richards

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            • #7
              A dustman told police that he had seen a man who appeared bloodstained walking down Hanbury St at past 5am that morning. So again we are back with slaughtermen or butchers apparently.

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              • #8
                Thanks for the replies.

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                • #9
                  And nobody saw a thing...

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
                    I believe 17 people lived inside 29 Hanbury, with a cats meats shop at ground level, facing the street. Many neighboring windows looked into the backyard of Hanbury, which means that the killer risked discovery from quite a few angles.

                    The problem with him jumping fences is obviously the neighbors windows...many of which, it is said, were open that night. Its likely he walked out the way he came in, via the corridor from the yard to the front door. If that's accurate, then the killer must have been someone who could walk the streets with confidence with blood on him...at 5 in the morning.

                    Kinda narrows the field, if that's the case.

                    Cheers
                    Which raises the question, did the tenants on the first floor hear the backyard door open close? Cadosche said the sounds he heard sounded like the neighbors...

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                    • #11
                      Mrs Richardson occupied the first floor front with her grandson. She testified at the inquest that she had been wakeful throughout the night and heard no-one in the passage. That presumably would include any door closing.

                      Mrs Hardiman, the cats meat lady on the ground floor, slept solidly through the night and didn't wake up until 6am when the uproar occurred following the discovery of Annie's body. There was an old man who made tennis shoes, mr Waker, in the first floor back with his mentally afflicted son, but he didn't make a statement.

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                      • #12
                        At The Risk Of Pedantry

                        Originally posted by RockySullivan View Post
                        Cadosche said the sounds he heard sounded like the neighbors...
                        Cadosch said he did not hear people in the yard as a rule, but had now and then heard them at that time of the morning. He went on to say (in explaining why he did not look over the fence) that at times the next door people were early risers.

                        He perhaps assumed that the neighbours were responsible but I don't think it's safe to conclude that the noises heard 'sounded like the neighbours'.
                        "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bridewell View Post
                          Cadosch said he did not hear people in the yard as a rule, but had now and then heard them at that time of the morning. He went on to say (in explaining why he did not look over the fence) that at times the next door people were early risers.

                          He perhaps assumed that the neighbours were responsible but I don't think it's safe to conclude that the noises heard 'sounded like the neighbours'.
                          Right his exact words were he "thought it was people belonging to the house".....rosella it's interesting that tenants in the back gave no statement, I assume their windows looked right into the yard...

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                          • #14
                            Hi Rocky

                            "thought it was people belonging to the house"

                            absolutely...if his lodgings had a khazi down the back of the yard, then (presumably) his neighbours lodgings had the same sort of arrangement...but the next down after that...didn't that have a factory or something in the back yard?

                            Cheers

                            Dave

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                            • #15
                              Right his exact words were he "thought it was people belonging to the house".
                              Rocky, what's your source for Cadosch's "exact words" please? The inquest documents don't survive as far as I know and the newspaper reports tend to be in reported speech.
                              "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

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