Broad Shoulders, Elizabeth's Killer ?

[c.d.]

Never a drop passes my lips.

Well then it looks like you are in the clear with these lovely ladies. Enjoy!..

c.d.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Well then it looks like you are in the clear with these lovely ladies. Enjoy!..

c.d.

The Herlock Sholmes Fan Club.

[FISHY1118]

The one on the far left side need'nt worry.

[The Rookie Detective]

Well then it looks like you are in the clear with these lovely ladies. Enjoy!..

c.d.

At least 2 of them are men dressed as women.

Fabulous photo!

[FISHY1118]

At least 2 of them are men dressed as women.

Fabulous photo!

Napoleon and Chaplin !!!

[Duran duren]

Looking at that pic, I can honestly say I have never drank that much in my life...

[NotBlamedForNothing]

If Schwartz was indeed lying and was using the ‘not very loudly’ as an excuse for why the ‘screams’ weren’t heard then I have to ask why he didn’t he simply not mention the ‘screams’ in the first place?

Genuine or not, Schwartz wanted to convey that this was more than a little street hassle.

When the word ‘screamed’ was used, either directly by Schwartz or by an interpreter in error, I’d suggest that volume wouldn’t have appeared relevant or significant to Schwartz. Then, when the police said something like “so these were loud screams.” Schwartz said “no, they weren’t very loud.”

It is conjecture, not fact, that the word screams was used in error. If you have complete confidence in Schwartz, then leave the police account as it is. No 'editing'.

If the Police doubted every event that went unseen or unheard in a populated area they would spend most of their time at the station playing cards with nothing to do. And yet here we are with something so prosaic being turned into a mystery. For a start people were doing other things; they weren’t on guard for unusual sounds. They were distracted. And of course…the screams weren’t very loud.

The Star, Oct 2:

If every man should be arrested who was known to have been seen in company with an abandoned woman in that locality on last Saturday night, the police-stations would not hold them. There are many people in that district who volunteer information to the police on the principle of securing lenient treatment for their own offences, and there are others who turn in descriptions on the chance of coming near enough the mark to claim a portion of the reward if the man should be caught, just as one buys a ticket in a lottery. Even where such information is given in good faith, it can rarely be looked upon in the light of a clue.

[NotBlamedForNothing]

What I did was to suggest two perfectly reasonable explanations as to why no one saw or heard the incident. Both of these are possible and are far more likely than a pretend witness.

If you have confidence in Schwartz, the straw man arguments would be unnecessary.

[Herlock Sholmes]

. Originally posted by Herlock Sholmes View Post
If Schwartz was indeed lying and was using the ‘not very loudly’ as an excuse for why the ‘screams’ weren’t heard then I have to ask why he didn’t he simply not mention the ‘screams’ in the first place?

Genuine or not, Schwartz wanted to convey that this was more than a little street hassle.

In the next passage you accuse me of conjecture. The statement above is conjecture. It’s simply your opinion.

When the word ‘screamed’ was used, either directly by Schwartz or by an interpreter in error, I’d suggest that volume wouldn’t have appeared relevant or significant to Schwartz. Then, when the police said something like “so these were loud screams.” Schwartz said “no, they weren’t very loud.”

It is conjecture, not fact, that the word screams was used in error. If you have complete confidence in Schwartz, then leave the police account as it is. No 'editing'.

There is no ‘police account’ it’s a Press account which isn’t corroborated. We don’t even know where it might have come from. Basically it’s little more than tittle-tattle.

If the Police doubted every event that went unseen or unheard in a populated area they would spend most of their time at the station playing cards with nothing to do. And yet here we are with something so prosaic being turned into a mystery. For a start people were doing other things; they weren’t on guard for unusual sounds. They were distracted. And of course…the screams weren’t very loud.

The Star, Oct 2:

If every man should be arrested who was known to have been seen in company with an abandoned woman in that locality on last Saturday night, the police-stations would not hold them. There are many people in that district who volunteer information to the police on the principle of securing lenient treatment for their own offences, and there are others who turn in descriptions on the chance of coming near enough the mark to claim a portion of the reward if the man should be caught, just as one buys a ticket in a lottery. Even where such information is given in good faith, it can rarely be looked upon in the light of a clue.

.[/I]

Again you are clinging to random newspaper articles. We have no evidence that Schwartz lied but you are using this to try a bolster your own theory. Nothing mysterious happened in Berner Street. The subject is plagued by people trying to twist things to suit their own theories.

[Herlock Sholmes]

If you have confidence in Schwartz, the straw man arguments would be unnecessary.

Like infantile conspiracy thinking.

[Sunny Delight]

Again you are clinging to random newspaper articles. We have no evidence that Schwartz lied but you are using this to try a bolster your own theory. Nothing mysterious happened in Berner Street. The subject is plagued by people trying to twist things to suit their own theories.

It really is. Some people work backwards. Settle on a theory and suspect then work backwards to try and see if anything fits. The conspiracy around the Socialist club always feels to me to be somewhat prejudiced. A load of Eastern European commies could only be interested in one thing- conspiring and manipulating. A lot of the conspiracy nonsense is led I feel by Americans who for some reason are terrified of anything Socialist. If the club had been the International Capitaist Men's club filled with a load of anti- Marxist businessmen from England or America would we even be having this conversation?

[c.d.]

As an American, I suppose I should be offended by that statement but I am not since it is completely without merit and quite frankly just bizarre. The handful of individuals pushing a conspiracy theory are not Americans as far as I know. I have been on the boards for many years and I can honestly say that I have never read a post pushing a particular theory or belief and thought to myself "yep, just what you'd expect from someone from (fill in the name of the country)."

c.d.

[Herlock Sholmes]

It really is. Some people work backwards. Settle on a theory and suspect then work backwards to try and see if anything fits. The conspiracy around the Socialist club always feels to me to be somewhat prejudiced. A load of Eastern European commies could only be interested in one thing- conspiring and manipulating. A lot of the conspiracy nonsense is led I feel by Americans who for some reason are terrified of anything Socialist. If the club had been the International Capitaist Men's club filled with a load of anti- Marxist businessmen from England or America would we even be having this conversation?

The whole conspiracy around the club was started by Michael Richards and he came up with it because he thought that Isenschmidt was a good candidate for Nichols and Chapman but he was under lock and key for Stride and Eddowes. Therefore he needed to ‘prove’ Stride wasn’t a victim. And viola - the plot. Made to measure.

[c.d.]

Yeah, I would like to know which Americans are supposedly touting a conspiracy theory.

c.d.

[Sunny Delight]

As an American, I suppose I should be offended by that statement but I am not since it is completely without merit and quite frankly just bizarre. The handful of individuals pushing a conspiracy theory are not Americans as far as I know. I have been on the boards for many years and I can honestly say that I have never read a post pushing a particular theory or belief and thought to myself "yep, just what you'd expect from someone from (fill in the name of the country)."

c.d.

Hi CD. My apologies this was a crass generalisation and I am actually mistaken because I thought Michael and Notblamedfornothing were American. It just felt a bit like seeing a bunch of Eastern European commies and immediately coming to the conclusion there was a conspiracy. I withdraw the comment and on seconds thoughts it should not have been written.