Jack's Escape Route?

[Enigma]

How would the graffitist know that Eddowes gave her name as 'Nothing' to the police? To me, this does not seem to be something that would be discussed in the conversation between Eddowes and JtR, if in fact it was he who wrote the graffito.

[FISHY1118]

''There is no evidence of any graffiti being left at any of the other crime scenes''.


Just how does this prove the killer didnt leave the griffiti at Goulston st ? , what just because he didnt do it at the other crime scenes therefor he didnt write it at G st ??? .if you believe the killer didnt write the graffiti thats fine, but to use the above as a [1] reason as ''why''.

[Joshua Rogan]

Im unsure if Long was aware of the murder when he found the apron. To be honest, I’d assumed that he was but I have no evidence for that (if evidence exists)

It appears that Long was only asked if he'd heard of the murder before going to the station.
However, according to a juryman's understanding, Long had heard of the murder before finding the apron, as he asked this question;

Times 12 Oct
"A juryman. - Having heard of the murder, and having afterwards found the piece of apron with blood on it and the writing on the wall, did it not strike you that it would be well to make some examination of the rooms in the building? "

[Abby Normal]

Well, let me help to try to remove those splinters I hate to see a grown man suffer.

There are a number of points to raise and questions to be asked not only with the graffiti but with the depositing of the apron piece. dealing first with the graffiti

There is no evidence of any graffiti being left at any of the other crime scenes

The Graffiti has no logical reference to any of the murders

Why would the killer write a message in such an out-of-the-way, location if he wanted it to be seen and found and connected to the murders?

The same goes for the apron piece why deposit it at that location when it might not have ever been found this leads me to be suspicious as to exactly how the Pc came to find it and decide it was of evidential value because at the time of discovery I don't believe he was aware of the Mitre Square murder

If the apron was deposited by the killer why did he wait so long before depositing it, when there would have been innumerable more public locations between Mitre Square and Goulston Street again it might never have been found, Why would the killer have taken such a risk of being stopped by police and found with a bloody knife and a bloody apron piece? and if he did take the organs away in the apron piece what happened to the organs ? I don't buy the suggestion that he went home and then came back out again to deposit the apron piece that would have been fraught with danger for him.

As the apron piece was found minus the organs and there is no plausible explanation as to what happened to the organs we must rightly assume that the organs were never taken away in the apron piece, modern-day medical tests have proved this to be correct, so there has to be alternative explanations, the obvious one is as I have continuously postulated that being the killer did not deposit it

If the same killer and that killer was responsible for one or more of the letters sent to the police surely if he had taken the apron piece he could have sent it to the police with a note attached that would have proved its authenticity

I am sorry to have to keep saying this but in my opinion, the killer did not write the graffiti nor did he deposit the apron piece, the old accepted theory surrounding this part of the Eddowes murder does clearly not stand up to close scrutiny

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

well if the killer didnt deposit the apron piece there, who did?

[GBinOz]

Hi George,

"Writing "nothing" being the name she gave to police", implies that JtR was a policeman. Is this a serious proposal for any of us?

I don't see the carrying of chalk as a problem - an experienced butcher/slaughterer working in the daytime as a butcher, would be quite likely to carry chalk in his pocket, for marking up meat prices on a board. He would be thoroughly used to writing in capitals about 3/4 inches high. These were a body of men, highly skilled with the use of a knife, who were always high on the list of potential suspects for the police.

Hi Doc,

I think that Eddowes was with her future killer before she was arrested and returned to meet him after being released, and told him that she told the police that her name was "nothing" when asked.

That is a good suggestion that the butchers would be used to writing in small cursive with chalk. Eddowes was arrested near, and returned to, an area close to Butcher's Row, where Jacob Levy lived and worked.

Cheers, George

[GBinOz]

Hello George,

I’m just about to head out so I don’t have time to check but can you (or anyone else) remember there being mention of the height above the ground that the message was situated? Maybe I’m mis-remembering but something is telling me that it was unusually low down?

Hi Herlock,

I believe it was quite low down. There is a dissertation by Howard Brown here:

https://www.casebook.org/dissertations/rip-offthewall.html

where he details his experiments with the size and height of the graffiti.

Cheers, George

[FISHY1118]

well if the killer didnt deposit the apron piece there, who did?

Maybe it was the dog that dragged it there, that which has been suggested .

[Doctored Whatsit]

Hi Doc,

I think that Eddowes was with her future killer before she was arrested and returned to meet him after being released, and told him that she told the police that her name was "nothing" when asked.

That is a good suggestion that the butchers would be used to writing in small cursive with chalk. Eddowes was arrested near, and returned to, an area close to Butcher's Row, where Jacob Levy lived and worked.

Cheers, George

Hi George,

I now understand your comment about Eddowes saying her name was "nothing", and your interpretation of it. However, she was totally intoxicated at this point, imitating a fire engine, and wanting to lie on the pavement to sleep. She virtually had to be carried to the police station, and probably remembered very little of what she said. Before leaving the police station, she gave her name as Mary Ann Kelly.

[Trevor Marriott]

well if the killer didnt deposit the apron piece there, who did?

Eddowes !

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[DJA]

Hi Herlock,

I believe it was quite low down. There is a dissertation by Howard Brown here:

https://www.casebook.org/dissertations/rip-offthewall.html

where he details his experiments with the size and height of the graffiti.

Cheers, George

GSG was written by someone of the same height as the man Elizabeth Long saw at Hanbury Street.

[Herlock Sholmes]

It appears that Long was only asked if he'd heard of the murder before going to the station.
However, according to a juryman's understanding, Long had heard of the murder before finding the apron, as he asked this question;

Times 12 Oct
"A juryman. - Having heard of the murder, and having afterwards found the piece of apron with blood on it and the writing on the wall, did it not strike you that it would be well to make some examination of the rooms in the building? "

Thanks Joshua.

[DJA]

Hi George,

I now understand your comment about Eddowes saying her name was "nothing", and your interpretation of it. However, she was totally intoxicated at this point, imitating a fire engine, and wanting to lie on the pavement to sleep. She virtually had to be carried to the police station, and probably remembered very little of what she said. Before leaving the police station, she gave her name as Mary Ann Kelly.

Eddowes was sober enough to be discharged at 1am,four and a half hours after being picked up by police,so she was not that drunk.

She had not been imitating a fire engine.That was invented by a newspaper.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Hi Herlock,

I believe it was quite low down. There is a dissertation by Howard Brown here:

https://www.casebook.org/dissertations/rip-offthewall.html

where he details his experiments with the size and height of the graffiti.

Cheers, George

It was a dumb question of mine on reflection George. Before I went out I was thinking ‘why would it be written lower down?’ Obviously it had to be written on the black part of the wall. You don’t see much white chalk graffiti on white walls for some reason.

[Elamarna]

That is a good suggekstion that the butchers would be used to writing in small cursive with chalk. Eddowes was arrested near, and returned to, an area close to Butcher's Row, where Jacob Levy lived and worked.

Cheers, George

Hi George, Levy did not live or probably work in Butchers Row. The family home and shop was located at 36 Middlesex street.

It's always possible he did do some hours in Butchers Row, but unlikely I think.


Steve

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Just as anyone can also see through these exchanges what a ridiculous statement you made regarding the man seen with lawende.

That you have been shown to be the case by another poster backs up my original reply

I guess the good night sleep didn't help.

Don't let your opinions get mixed up with the facts. Rookie mistake.

Anyone viewing this exchange can see that I made serious, reasoned points in # 316 and that throughout it you have made flippant and gratuitously condescending and insulting remarks, without putting forward a single counter-argument, as follows:


# 317

you have seriously got to be kidding . Any wonder herlock is pulling his hair out with you . What nonsense you write .

# 318

Its worth repeating for a good laugh i guess.

# 321

You didnt refute anything ,you just made a a silly statement to start with and you got caught out

# 325

There was really no need to [counter my reasoned arguments with reason], you didnt have an arguement to start with after that silly comment .

# 326

Well stop making your own silly flippant statemets like the Lawende one and you just might get taken a little more seriously , but for now just stop wasting my time.


# 331

Oh now were using pretty colors hmmm i little desperate but it to be expected i guess.

Again there was no need for any arguement, it was a silly comment to begin with ... However you went off on some silly rant that proved nothing ... youve made yourself look even less credable than when you started that reckless comment by trying to defend it .

# 337

Ahh the old sober and reasoned ploy ,yeah thats a good one keep it up, your not fooling anyone here.

# 339

I'm suggesting you quit this argument that which started from a ridiculous statement of yours , stop throwing your toys out of the crib and Get a good night sleep .

# 352

... what a ridiculous statement you made ... That you have been shown to be the case ... Don't let your opinions get mixed up with the facts. Rookie mistake.


You are bringing this forum into disrepute and, unfortunately, the moderators are allowing you to do so.