New to the forum but where's the knife?

[Parisi North Humber]

Good evening everybody, this is my first post so please make allowances for the new gal and any faux pas I may inadvertently make.
Let me start with laying out my long but non academic interest in the whitechapel murders. I've been fascinated with the Autumn of terror (and beyond) for over 30 years and although it started as a teenage "who dunnit" the mystery has never diminished, in fact has only intensified. However saying that, I come to you with no theory per se and no suspect,.......just questions, queries, possibilities, random thoughts, a ready wit and an expectation of being either countered or enlightened on every point by far more dedicated and insightfu

[Parisi North Humber]

Sorry ....it posted without me finishing....sign of things to come I'm afraid.
So I must pose my question quickly before something else horrible happens.

Does anybody find it strange that there is no mention of Mary J Kelly owning a knife? And or no mention of a knife found in the room at the inquest?
I know there is a paucity of information regarding MJK's belongings and items found in her room (especially compared to the previous victims) as such it has been presumed that the full inventory has been lost in the mists of time and Aberline only mentioned items of consequence at the inquest (kettle spout, pipe, burnt clothing bits etc). This being the case one must assume that no knife was found (either that or information was being with held). So I ask does it not seem strange that no knife was mentioned? Ie. A staple of the poorest is a knife..... to peel potatoes, cut cheese, slice bread, trim a candle, cut meat, trim leather off shoes (ahem), let alone as a single female (persueing probably the most dangerous occupation at the time) to defend oneself .
As I said, lots of questions and little acumen.
and I will try not to post from my phone ever again as it seems to do it's own thing.
but thank you for tolerating a newbie.
Helen X

[Enigma]

Welcome to the boards.

This thread may be of interest for you.

https://forum.casebook.org/forum/ripper-discussions/victims/mary-jane-kelly/10440-mary-kelly-s-clothing-and-possessions

[Parisi North Humber]

Many thanks enigma....off for a perusal.

Helen x

[Herlock Sholmes]

Welcome to Casebook Helen.

[Parisi North Humber]

Thank you Herlock.

Helen x

[Abby Normal]

welcome to the nut house parisi : )

[Christian]

Good evening everybody, this is my first post so please make allowances for the new gal and any faux pas I may inadvertently make.
Let me start with laying out my long but non academic interest in the whitechapel murders. I've been fascinated with the Autumn of terror (and beyond) for over 30 years and although it started as a teenage "who dunnit" the mystery has never diminished, in fact has only intensified. However saying that, I come to you with no theory per se and no suspect,.......just questions, queries, possibilities, random thoughts, a ready wit and an expectation of being either countered or enlightened on every point by far more dedicated and insightfu

Welcome!! Good bunch on here!!

[Parisi North Humber]

Thank you for the warm welcome Abby and Christian. As for the "nut house " I'll try my best to fit in

Helen x

[Ms Diddles]

Hi Helen!

Welcome aboard!

Your moniker makes me wonder if you are from the Hull / East Riding area??

[Kattrup]

I know there is a paucity of information regarding MJK's belongings and items found in her room (especially compared to the previous victims) as such it has been presumed that the full inventory has been lost in the mists of time and Aberline only mentioned items of consequence at the inquest (kettle spout, pipe, burnt clothing bits etc). This being the case one must assume that no knife was found (either that or information was being with held). So I ask does it not seem strange that no knife was mentioned? Ie. A staple of the poorest is a knife..... to peel potatoes, cut cheese, slice bread, trim a candle, cut meat, trim leather off shoes (ahem), let alone as a single female (persueing probably the most dangerous occupation at the time) to defend oneself .

hi Helen, welcome to the forums.

As to MJK owning a knife, we don’t really know. I’d be inclined to remind you that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
It’s a common mistake here, even among ostensibly “respected” veteran posters to claim that since something or other is not mentioned, it was not present.
Such an argument is invalid.

We can think of countless things not mentioned that we know for a fact were present anyway. Gravity, oxygen, light etc.

So the rule is, unless a contemporary source mentions something as missing, we cannot assume it was missing.

Did MJK have a knife? Probably. Do we know for certain? No.

Was prostitution the most dangerous profession at the time? I don’t know but I’d wager no - of course depending on what you mean: dangerous in terms of deaths per person? Or personal non-lethal assaults? Dangerous in terms of the UK or - which area?

Having spent some time looking for MJKs in Wales, I imagine a profession as miner would be more lethal than that of prostitute.

[Parisi North Humber]

Thank you Ms Diddles for the welcome. Very astute of you re. the Hull area actually the Brough area which is possibly the capital of the Paris tribe.

kattrup thank you for the response, sorry I didnt make myself clear about the dangerous profession at the time (my bad). Allow me to expand, I should have said that it was such a dangerous profession for a female prostitute or even just a lone woman walking the streets at night at that time (autumn of terror). Being the last of the C5 she would have been well aware of what was happening and having access to a knife would be of some sort of defence. As I said just thought it was odd that it was not mentioned as it would seem the police finding a knife in her room would have been mentioned as an item of cosequence much like the pipe. So as I see it we are left with four possible options:
1. She didn't own a knife.
2. She owned a knife and it was missing.
3. The police found her knife but neglected to mention it for some reason.
4. Her knife was there but the police failed to find it. (Unlikely in my opinion).

I'm sure I've missed something but that is why I'm here to learn and expand my knowledge.

Helen x

[John Wheat]

Hi Parisi North Humber
Welcome to the boards. If Mary Jane Kelly did own a knife then maybe Jack the Ripper took it.

Cheers John

[Parisi North Humber]

Hi John, as a momento or possiblely even used it on her in a macabre sadistic twist. My other thought was the knife was found by the police but the evidence was withheld for reasons only known to themselves, although we can hazards guesses. It is so frustrating that so much information has been lost in the mists of time, but it is a double edged sword as it makes our thought processes work harder.
I really don't know about the knife however I do think Mary would have a knife for household chores and self defence.....I know I would, speaking from trying to put myself in her place.

Helen x

[Kattrup]

So as I see it we are left with four possible options:
1. She didn't own a knife.
2. She owned a knife and it was missing.
3. The police found her knife but neglected to mention it for some reason.
4. Her knife was there but the police failed to find it. (Unlikely in my opinion).

Thanks for the reply. I think your #3 is correct but the term ‘neglected’ is misleading, implying that the police were negligent. The police only mentioned items they deemed relevant to the questions they were asked.
We know from press reports that there were other items in the room not mentioned by the police. For instance a picture referred to as “The Fisherman’s Widow”.
So there was nothing negligent about us not knowing which objects were found, the police simply did not mention everything. Nothing can be inferred from this.