Evidence left behind

[FrankO]

re the knife. yes he may have carried the knife with him all the time, but we don't know that for sure and I think that he probably didn't. first, it must have been kind of a big sharp knife(cumbersome?) so not sure he would always have it on him.

I'm far from convinced he carried the killing knife with him all the time, so I think you make a fair point, Abby. In the end, the Ripper didn't use a weapon that he just happened to find where he killed his victims, so bringing his own knife is an organized trait - be that 'very' or otherwise.

[Abby Normal]

The thing is, Abby, that he can’t have known that. Even if he would have staked out the spots where he wanted to kill for a few nights at least, he couldn’t be absolutely sure that the place would be safe. Not the outdoors scenes, anyway. Simply because he had no control over other people who might at any given time and for whatever reason walk into the scene before he realized it.

I don’t think that what you describe above is necessarily highly intelligent. It could just as well have been simply practical. If he saw prostitutes on a sort of daily basis and even used them, then the idea of killing one of them would not need a lot of thinking, but would rather be practical. A very organized Jack the Ripper, to me, would have tried to find possible victims with places of their own (like Kelly) or have (gotten hold of keys of) used vacant buildings to which he lured his victims.

All the best,
Frank

Hi Frank
see what your saying but slightly disagree. I think a disorganized jack would have just attacked them where he found them. his tactic seemed to ruse the victims, put them at ease, pretend he was a regular punter, let them lead him to secluded spot. its actually quite brilliant IMHO. and keep in mind he did eventually kill Mary at her own place so that shows evolution, and if he knew her beforehamnd, and I think the evidence points to that then he engaged in preplanning, targeting, stalking etc. again traits of highly organized killer.

A very organized Jack the Ripper, to me, would have tried to find possible victims with places of their own (like Kelly) or have (gotten hold of keys of) used vacant buildings to which he lured his victims.

I see what your saying(and agree would be highly organized) but would that ruse still work at the height of the ripper scare? wouldnt the victims be more hesitant to go where he led them or where they led him?? and him bringing them to a place of his choosing or tied to him-couldn't that be risky in itself-as in hes tied personally to the murder scene?

[Abby Normal]

I'm far from convinced he carried the killing knife with him all the time, so I think you make a fair point, Abby. In the end, the Ripper didn't use a weapon that he just happened to find where he killed his victims, so bringing his own knife is an organized trait - be that 'very' or otherwise.

good talk Frank I enjoy it

[Errata]

I'm far from convinced he carried the killing knife with him all the time, so I think you make a fair point, Abby. In the end, the Ripper didn't use a weapon that he just happened to find where he killed his victims, so bringing his own knife is an organized trait - be that 'very' or otherwise.

Both knives. It’s sort of extra organized if you have to carry more than your every workaday tool knife with you. And probably have to conceal it as well.

[FrankO]

his tactic seemed to ruse the victims, put them at ease, pretend he was a regular punter, let them lead him to secluded spot. its actually quite brilliant IMHO. and keep in mind he did eventually kill Mary at her own place so that shows evolution, and if he knew her beforehamnd, and I think the evidence points to that then he engaged in preplanning, targeting, stalking etc. again traits of highly organized killer.

An interesting thing I've come across on several ocasions when reading about organized serial killers is that, typically, 3 seperate crime scenes can be distinguished: where the killer approached his victim, where the victim was killed, and where the victim’s body was disposed of. I think we just have to agree to disagree on this one, Abby, even though our views are not far apart.

I see what your saying(and agree would be highly organized) but would that ruse still work at the height of the ripper scare? wouldnt the victims be more hesitant to go where he led them or where they led him??

As far as the idea of luring his victims to vacant buildings is concerned, I think you’re right. After a couple of victims it is likely that this ruse wouldn’t work any longer. But if he was the charming, manipulative type that some think he was, then he may just have pulled it off. Of course, this wouldn’t go for the other possibility: trying to find more victims like Kelly.

and him bringing them to a place of his choosing or tied to him-couldn't that be risky in itself-as in hes tied personally to the murder scene?

I didn’t propose that those vacant buildings were places that he could be tied to, but if they were, then, yes, that would be more risky. In that case, to reduce the risk of being found out, he would have needed to cut his victims to pieces, clean the place and dump the parts somewhere else. Like I think Torso man had to.

All the best,
Frank

[FrankO]

good talk Frank I enjoy it

We completely agree on that one, Abby - me too.

[Michael W Richards]

I'm far from convinced he carried the killing knife with him all the time, so I think you make a fair point, Abby. In the end, the Ripper didn't use a weapon that he just happened to find where he killed his victims, so bringing his own knife is an organized trait - be that 'very' or otherwise.

I think he carried it on him almost all the time at night, if we are talking about murders by Jack, the killer of random prostitutes while they were out soliciting by themselves. Because I believe its very possible they were killed by a butcher who very often butchered late into the night. Oh yeah, and he was probably the man seen the morning of Annies death in the pub a hundred yards down the street. Bloodied and acting bizarre.

[C. F. Leon]

How about these possibilities?

- Key to the Time Machine?
- Loose page from a (Victorian) scrapbook?
- Blueprints for a house in Chicago?
- a cigarette case (from a Gladstone bag)?
- Indian herbs?
- (other) half a kidney?
- Mary Kelly's address written on a bar napkin?
- French papers de identification?
- a penknife with "T. Cutbush" carved on it?
- a Leather Apron? (Oh wait. They DID find one of THOSE.)
- notepaper with "Monty the Ripper", "Aaron the Ripper", "Michael the Ripper", "John the Ripper", "David the Ripper", "Frances the Ripper", "James the Ripper", "Leslie the Ripper", "Stanley the Ripper", "Commissioner Hengues the Ripper", "Jacob the Ripper", "Robert the Ripper", "Martin the Ripper" (and others) all crossed out except "Jack" (which is highlighted)?
- piece of an ear?
- partially-burned recording cylinder, which when played back starts with "Greetings, Mr. Ripper. Your Mission, if you choose to accept it..." in Russian?
- a hangman's noose with "I am J-" written on it in a strong Victorian hand?
- a uterus with "Abby Normal" on the container?
- Robert Anderson's travel schedule?
- other half of an apron (below some graffiti reading "The juws are the men who will be blamed for EVERYTHING")?
- a "Dear James" letter signed by a "Florence Maybrick?"
- a love letter to a "Mary Peasley?"
- an extra arm?
- a yarmulke (tag reading "Made in Poland")?
- a recipe for cat's meat?
- a shawl with 'C. Kelly" written on it?
- a used bar of soap (Ivory, of course)?
- a sieve?
- a maul?
- hops?
- a horseshoe tiepin?
- the Irish Crown Jewels?
- some clothing (worth 3 pounds, 10 shillings)?
- "The Fisherman's Widow"?
- A Violet I Plucked from Mother's Grave?
- multiple Birth Certificates for a "Mary Janet Kelly" with various dates and locations?

(others?)

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Never a piece of an ear, a whole ear, smudged with oil paint.

[C. F. Leon]

Never a piece of an ear, a whole ear, smudged with oil paint.

.
Bingo! You got it. (I was worried that most readers would make an association with Eddowes). I was a bit stumped on how to make a better connection, but you did better than I did.

There seems to be a controversy on just how much of his ear Van Gogh cut off, his family later said it was just his earlobe, but Dr. Rey and the police reported it was the entire auricle (external ear). The (1930) drawing by Dr. Rey seems to show virtually the entire auricle missing, less a vestige possibly part of the earlobe.

[C. F. Leon]

How about these possibilities?

...
- a uterus with "Abby Normal" on the container?
...

It wasn't until I was looking at another thread that I remembered that there was a user here that uses "Abby Normal" as their tag.

My apologies to that user. I was thinking of the use of the term in "Young Frankenstein". No offense was intended.

[Abby Normal]

It wasn't until I was looking at another thread that I remembered that there was a user here that uses "Abby Normal" as their tag.

My apologies to that user. I was thinking of the use of the term in "Young Frankenstein". No offense was intended.

lol. no worries CF. I found it rather funny. btw-the name does come from the movie which i also picked for the rock band i was in.

[C. F. Leon]

How about these possibilities?
...
- a recipe for cat's meat?
...

Recipe #1:
- Fill large pot halfway with water.
- Take one (1) (probably uncooperative) cat. (Getting it into the pot is YOUR problem.)
- Cover with HEAVY lid.
- Set on fire until neighbors complain.
- Remove from fire, lift lid.
- After being released from Hospital, serve contents of pot to neighbors or whoever else you want to get rid of.
- Feed rest of pot contents to rats.
- Feed raw rats to another cat
- Repeat process ad infinitum.

Recipe #2:
- Find dead cat in grocery store parking lot while collecting cans
- Fill pot halfway with water. (For a Continental Palate, water may be filtered through kidneys)
- Put dead cat in pot
- Add carrots, potatoes, or any other produce found in grocery store dumpster.
-- Gourmet Variant: add tossed meals found in high-class Restaurant dumpster
- Stew for 2 or 3 days while waiting Bail for Setting Fire on Public Property
- Upon return, remove pot from fire, lift lid
- After treatment for burns, taste contents
- Go "yuck"
- After Vomiting subsides, pour contents down drain, go to Micky D's for Lunch

[C. F. Leon]

Were these appreciated at all? Because I've got a BUNCH more if there's interest....

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Were these appreciated at all? Because I've got a BUNCH more if there's interest....

What, recipes? Go on then.