Evidence left behind

[pwilliamgrimm]

It is documented in the biography of Willy Clarkson that the culprit left behind the Berner Street wig at the Elizabeth Stride crime scene. As shown in this documentary.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_2m...ature=youtu.be

[Abby Normal]

'nick of time' does not suggest well organized -- how can we know if he used a ruse to lure his victims? -- Polly and Annie were in places their profession takes them, Catherine may have been just walking through the square, Martha was asleep (passed out) and MJK had to admit strangers to her room if she was ever to catch up to her rent. To get these women to the wrong place I just don't see a ruse even being necessary.

As far as organization goes, all I see so far is that he could avoid the blood well enough to make his escape unnoticed, but when we talk about his ability to do so much in so little time (in almost dark) we are likely denoting the skill of a butcher or surgeon, but that does not mean his attacks were well thought out, only that he could wheel a knife. A butcher or doctor can as likely just jump from the shadows as would any disorganized opportunist marauder.

Hi AP
with all due respect-"jump from the shadows"?!? cmon. Of course a ruse was used. multiple witnesses saw the ripper chatting up the victims before they were murdered. they were prostitutes actively soliciting and or out on the town having fun. he let them lead him to a safe spot for business or simply to hook up. I concede he may have come across tabram when she was dozing.

and re Kelly-she either led him to her room under the ruse of business or hook up, or he knew she was single (and perhaps also the hand through the window trick to unlock her door) which would indicate stalking behavior. and either of these scenarios is indicative of an organized killer.

and besides, no disorganized killer could have pulled off the double event and GSG/apron.

[APerno]

the ripper was a very organized killer. he used a ruse to get victims where he wanted them, always got away in the nick of time and the only clue he left behind was intentional.

'nick of time' does not suggest well organized -- how can we know if he used a ruse to lure his victims? -- Polly and Annie were in places their profession takes them, Catherine may have been just walking through the square, Martha was asleep (passed out) and MJK had to admit strangers to her room if she was ever to catch up to her rent. To get these women to the wrong place I just don't see a ruse even being necessary.

As far as organization goes, all I see so far is that he could avoid the blood well enough to make his escape unnoticed, but when we talk about his ability to do so much in so little time (in almost dark) we are likely denoting the skill of a butcher or surgeon, but that does not mean his attacks were well thought out, only that he could wheel a knife. A butcher or doctor can as likely just jump from the shadows as would any disorganized opportunist marauder.

[DJA]

Abberline - There was a man's clay pipe in the room, and Barnett informed me that he smoked it.

[Michael W Richards]

As far as what he might have left behind, there are reports that suggest a knife was among the entrails on Marys night table, there is also the clay pipe that was broken. I was always interested by the fact that no garrotes or ligatures were ever found on the women, makes me wonder if he re-used one or if he choked most of them by hand.

[Abby Normal]

the ripper was a very organized killer. he used a ruse to get victims where he wanted them, always got away in the nick of time and the only clue he left behind was intentional.

[Jon Guy]

Thanks Jon. I'm not sure it was the police that found those stains, although I'm sure they searched the area the night of the murder. If I recall, the wax stains didn't appear until a day or so afterwards. And, from the Times 2 Oct, not during the night;

"Police-sergeant Dudman had his attention drawn yesterday afternoon to No. 36, Mike-Street [Mitre-street], a house a short distance from where the second murder was committed, and there he found what appeared to be bloodstains upon the doorway and underneath the window, as if a person had wiped his fingers on the window ledge and drawn a bloodstained knife down part of the doorway. Mr. Hurtig, who lives on the premises, said he had only just before noticed the stains. Almost immediately afterwards the same police officer had his attention drawn to similar marks on the plate-glass window of a shop at the corner of Mitre-square; but the occupier ridiculed the idea that they could have anything to do with the murders, as the windows were covered at night by shutters."

Thanks JR, that`s it.
But my point being, that the police if presented with blood stains would make a note of them

Same with Bucks Row, where the area was searched for blood stains

[The Baron]

or a sailor !!!!

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

A sailor would be better than a barrister.



The Baron

[Joshua Rogan]

Hi JR

The City Police did look for out for blood stains.
They thought they had found some bloody fingerprints on the window sill of a shop in Mitre Street, which were closely examined, but turned out to be candle wax.

Thanks Jon. I'm not sure it was the police that found those stains, although I'm sure they searched the area the night of the murder. If I recall, the wax stains didn't appear until a day or so afterwards. And, from the Times 2 Oct, not during the night;

"Police-sergeant Dudman had his attention drawn yesterday afternoon to No. 36, Mike-Street [Mitre-street], a house a short distance from where the second murder was committed, and there he found what appeared to be bloodstains upon the doorway and underneath the window, as if a person had wiped his fingers on the window ledge and drawn a bloodstained knife down part of the doorway. Mr. Hurtig, who lives on the premises, said he had only just before noticed the stains. Almost immediately afterwards the same police officer had his attention drawn to similar marks on the plate-glass window of a shop at the corner of Mitre-square; but the occupier ridiculed the idea that they could have anything to do with the murders, as the windows were covered at night by shutters."

[Trevor Marriott]

That's how I see it Dave

A butcher, a surgeon or a soldier.



The Baron

or a sailor !!!!

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Jon Guy]

Perhaps fingermarks and other traces were everywhere after all but, since there was little they could do with the information, the police didn't find them noteworthy.

Hi JR

The City Police did look for out for blood stains.
They thought they had found some bloody fingerprints on the window sill of a shop in Mitre Street, which were closely examined, but turned out to be candle wax.

[Joshua Rogan]

The footprints are perhaps avoidable but general blood traces, whether footprints handprints smears or smudges, there’s very little of it.

consider MJK and the killers hands and arms afterwards. Quite the feat not to leave any blood traces upon leaving.

Quite. A trail of bloody footprints would have been very useful. Perhaps fingermarks and other traces were everywhere after all but, since there was little they could do with the information, the police didn't find them noteworthy.

The only ones I can think of are the apprent hand print on MJK's leg in the photo, and this mention in the Star's interview with PC Watkins;

""Were there any signs of a struggle?"

"None at all. There was perhaps a quart of blood on the stones, but there were no footprints or finger marks, except where the woman's chemise had been caught hold of as if it had fallen down in the way."

[Kattrup]

IMO one thing that that speaks to the Ripper being an organized killer was his ability to 'never' step in any of the victims blood. It almost seems amazing that there were never any bloody footprints to follow, if even only for a step or two.

The footprints are perhaps avoidable but general blood traces, whether footprints handprints smears or smudges, there’s very little of it.

consider MJK and the killers hands and arms afterwards. Quite the feat not to leave any blood traces upon leaving.

[The Baron]

Decades of experience.

That's how I see it Dave

A butcher, a surgeon or a soldier.



The Baron

[GUT]

So many people want 2019 thinking and forensics in a 1888 case, what clues do you want him to leave behind?