Is this Dutfield Yard ?

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Simon

Thanks very much...but now I'm really puzzled...was 9ft 2in the total width of the pair of gates? If so, this suggests one gate was 4ft 7in and Liz was therefore found about five and a half feet from the property boundary...as opposed to eighteen feet as suggested by Mike's drawing...Can this be correct?

All the best

Dave

PS - To clarify, my original impression was that the body was (easily) within a foot of a closed gates-length from the property boundary...hope that makes sense

[Simon Wood]

Hi Dave,

The dimensions as shown are taken from witness testimony at the Stride inquest.

So it looks like Stride was found between five and six feet from the street.

Regards,

Simon

[Cogidubnus]

Thanks Simon

That makes perfect sense now

Dave

[Simon Wood]

Hi Dave,

I'm pleased the drawing helped.

Here's the detail from a Goad's Fire Map [courtesy of Rob Clack].



The yard wasn't as 90 degree square as I had it in my quick plan, but I don't think that alters much.

Regards,

Simon

[Monty]

Tsk tsk,

The rubbish heap is missing.

Monty

[Cogidubnus]

Thanks gentlemen...

Dave

[Bridewell]

A First

Tsk tsk,

The rubbish heap is missing.

Monty

Hi Monty,

Are you the first person ever to complain about a lack of rubbish on Casebook?

Regards, Bridewell.

[Monty]

I've no grounds for that Colin.

Just saying, for those who know better than me.

Monty

[Michael W Richards]

Hi Dave,

My side notes on that rough sketch did say that she was found that far from the gate, I know and you now know I meant the distance to the side door from where she was found.

One foot was very close to the open right gate, as Simon's post indicated.

She was essentially just inside the gates when killed, in a spot where mutilations would have been impractical and almost public. Had the killer taken her back into the yard, past the ajar side door, there was oodles of privacy available, and no cottages almost directly opposite the scene.

Best regards,

Mike R

[Cogidubnus]

My side notes on that rough sketch did say that she was found that far from the gate, I know and you now know I meant the distance to the side door from where she was found.

One foot was very close to the open right gate, as Simon's post indicated.

She was essentially just inside the gates when killed, in a spot where mutilations would have been impractical and almost public. Had the killer taken her back into the yard, past the ajar side door, there was oodles of privacy available, and no cottages almost directly opposite the scene.

Sorry Mike, no they didn't, and no I'm not a mindreader...nor do I necessarily acknowledge one foot (a heel plus associated bones) with something afoot...

All the best

Dave

[Michael W Richards]

Sorry Mike, no they didn't, and no I'm not a mindreader...nor do I necessarily acknowledge one foot (a heel plus associated bones) with something afoot...

All the best

Dave

Hi Dave,

Im not sure what your meant by your post, but to specifically address where she was found, from the Inquest and Dr Blackwell;

"The deceased was lying on her left side obliquely across the passage, her face looking towards the right wall. Her legs were drawn up, her feet close against the wall of the right side of the passage. Her head was resting beyond the carriage-wheel rut, the neck lying over the rut. Her feet were three yards from the gateway."

Her feet were 9 feet from the gateway, not the edge of the open right hand side of the gates. So she was just inside the passageway, knees bent, her feet together and close to the right gate, as other witnesses stated.

He also stated that he believed the woman was pulled backwards by her then twisted scarf just before being cut, which by her final body posture suggests that she was facing the open gates when that occurred.

Best regards,

Mike R

[C. F. Leon]

- And his pony!

Best regards,
Archaic

A new witness!!! Was the pony ever asked as to what it saw?

[Phil H]

I attach a pic of Stewart's old model, which shows where he believed the body to have lain. Perhaps that might give a basis for discussion of whether we think Liz was further to the left - closer to the the side door - or not. For some reason Stewart showed the gates as closed.

Phil

PS I note that they body appears to be reversed from what I would expect. I thought Liz's head should have been towards the yard.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Phil

So what was the window directly above the body, and could it have been illuminated on the night?

All the best

Dave

[Phil H]

Possibly, though it would presumably depend on what room lay behind the window - a storage room might not be lit. A staircase or room in use might be.

But with the gates open, there might still have been a shadow where the body lay.

Phil