Douible Event Triangulation

[lynn cates]

Henry James?

Hello Jon. There was a wandering lunatic named Henry James. He was sighted by Thomas Eade in conjunction with the Chapman murder.

I have wondered whether the Thimbleby sighting were James?

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

The basic idea of "which way did he go after the murders?" is a good one...I've always assumed that after Buck's Row he headed west as the discoverers came from the East......

I know this concerns the Double-event, but a little known sighting immediately following the Chapman murder suggests a suspect headed east on Hanbury St. towards Brick Lane.

"John Thimbleby, coppersmith in Hanbury's brewery, went to the Commercial-street-station at one o'clock yesterday to say that at six o'clock that morning a man attracted his particular attention before he heard of the murder. He was hurrying from Hanbury-street, below where the murder took place, into Brick-lane. He was walking, almost running, and had a peculiar gait, his knees not bending when he walked. (This is a peculiarity of "Leather Apron's" gait). He was dressed in a dark stiff hat and cutaway coat, reaching to his knees. His face was clean shaven, and he seemed about 30 years old. Thimbleby says he can identify him."

A 30+/- year old man dressed in a morning/cutaway coat is known from the Stride murder.
Davis is said to have discovered the body of Chapman about 6:00 am, the men to whom he raised the alarm did not run eastward, but westward, so this doesn't appear to be a recent witness to the finding of the body.
It may have been the killer.

If it was, then here again we have this perpetrator fleeing eastward again like he did from Mitre Sq.

Just something to throw into the mix..

Regards, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

non-sighting

Hello Neil. Human error, inattentiveness, are quite possible.

And it's easier to go out the gates. Going through the club would explain things ONLY if there were no way to explain the non-sighting.

Cheers.
LC

[Monty]

There was also a fan light above the side door and cottages opposite, some with lights on Lynn.

I don't see why a man, who has just killed someone and in possession of a weapon, would run the risk of entering a crowded club to escape.

As for Brown and Mortimer. Human error, cunning, these things happen.

Monty

[lynn cates]

exits

Hello Neil. Yes, it would be easier to have exited through the gates. But if he turned right, would not Brown have seen him? And if left, perhaps Mrs. Mortimer?

The front door was locked to Berner traffic, but one could still exit.

I believe that the side door was slightly ajar at some point. If so, there would have been sufficient light to fine the aperture and open the door further.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

club

Hello Beowulf. The club was not huge. And if he were inside just previous, as a guest, say, there would have been no difficulty finding his way back through again.

Cheers.
LC

[Monty]

To escape via the club means he would have had to have ventured deeper into the dark yard, take a right into the club, find his was through and back out onto Berner Street.

Its easier just to walk the few yards via the gate and out into the street.

Besides, I believe the side entrance was the main entrance, the front was secured. I may be wrong on that.

Monty

[Beowulf]

and he might've left soon after Schwartz saw him.

[Beowulf]

Diemshutz didn't shut the gates at that time.

The gates were closed upon the instruction of PC Lamb, who arrived on the scene some minutes after the discovery of Stride. Leaving plenty of time for the killer to escape.

Plus, there's no evidence to suggest the killer hadn't left the yard before Diemshutz entered.

As for escaping from the yard, unless he scaled high walls and clambered over rooftops, in darkness, then the chance are he simply walked out.

Monty

Thank you for pointing out it was Lamb who locked the gates. I now see in the book I am currently reading, JTR..., by House, that it says it was Lamb who closed the door and it was a bit of time that went by from discovery to gates locked. But he'd still have to steal past to get through which makes me think it more likely he went through the club.

If Jack did in fact go through the Workingmen's Club how did he know the layout? It's possible he just took the chance going through looking for an exit. This made me wonder if he had been in the Workingmen's Club before and was one of the members, but I see they did take down the name of the club members and question them.

Right now, for me it's amazing to think he may have made his way through that club, and no one would notice a stranger going through, picking his way looking for an exit. I know they took down names and questioned people, I wish there was some of the responses about.

[Steve S]

The basic idea of "which way did he go after the murders?" is a good one...I've always assumed that after Buck's Row he headed west as the discoverers came from the East......

[The Good Michael]

As for escaping from the yard, unless he scaled high walls and clambered over rooftops, in darkness, then the chance are he simply walked out.

I'm sure he heard the cart coming a good way off as well. With the noise of the music, the drinking and dancing, and the cart coming from a different direction, it makes me think that this was all about a quick kill and getting out of there.

Mike

[Monty]

Diemshutz didn't shut the gates at that time.

The gates were closed upon the instruction of PC Lamb, who arrived on the scene some minutes after the discovery of Stride. Leaving plenty of time for the killer to escape.

Plus, there's no evidence to suggest the killer hadn't left the yard before Diemshutz entered.

As for escaping from the yard, unless he scaled high walls and clambered over rooftops, in darkness, then the chance are he simply walked out.

Monty

[lynn cates]

access

Hello Beowulf. Yes, and it would be easy to go through the side door and then out to Berner.

Cheers.
LC

[Beowulf]

oh, whoa. For hours I've been obsessing over this. Yes, I'm sure that is the answer, or at least the most probable. Didn't realize the doors from that building faced Berner street.

Lol. Thanks.

[lynn cates]

exit

Hello Beowulf. I believe that the gates were open for a bit.

But have you considered that her killer might have gone back through the side door of the club and integrated with the crowd?

Cheers.
LC