Douible Event Triangulation

[The Good Michael]

As for escaping from the yard, unless he scaled high walls and clambered over rooftops, in darkness, then the chance are he simply walked out.

I'm sure he heard the cart coming a good way off as well. With the noise of the music, the drinking and dancing, and the cart coming from a different direction, it makes me think that this was all about a quick kill and getting out of there.

Mike

[Steve S]

The basic idea of "which way did he go after the murders?" is a good one...I've always assumed that after Buck's Row he headed west as the discoverers came from the East......

[Beowulf]

Diemshutz didn't shut the gates at that time.

The gates were closed upon the instruction of PC Lamb, who arrived on the scene some minutes after the discovery of Stride. Leaving plenty of time for the killer to escape.

Plus, there's no evidence to suggest the killer hadn't left the yard before Diemshutz entered.

As for escaping from the yard, unless he scaled high walls and clambered over rooftops, in darkness, then the chance are he simply walked out.

Monty

Thank you for pointing out it was Lamb who locked the gates. I now see in the book I am currently reading, JTR..., by House, that it says it was Lamb who closed the door and it was a bit of time that went by from discovery to gates locked. But he'd still have to steal past to get through which makes me think it more likely he went through the club.

If Jack did in fact go through the Workingmen's Club how did he know the layout? It's possible he just took the chance going through looking for an exit. This made me wonder if he had been in the Workingmen's Club before and was one of the members, but I see they did take down the name of the club members and question them.

Right now, for me it's amazing to think he may have made his way through that club, and no one would notice a stranger going through, picking his way looking for an exit. I know they took down names and questioned people, I wish there was some of the responses about.

[Beowulf]

and he might've left soon after Schwartz saw him.

[Monty]

To escape via the club means he would have had to have ventured deeper into the dark yard, take a right into the club, find his was through and back out onto Berner Street.

Its easier just to walk the few yards via the gate and out into the street.

Besides, I believe the side entrance was the main entrance, the front was secured. I may be wrong on that.

Monty

[lynn cates]

club

Hello Beowulf. The club was not huge. And if he were inside just previous, as a guest, say, there would have been no difficulty finding his way back through again.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

exits

Hello Neil. Yes, it would be easier to have exited through the gates. But if he turned right, would not Brown have seen him? And if left, perhaps Mrs. Mortimer?

The front door was locked to Berner traffic, but one could still exit.

I believe that the side door was slightly ajar at some point. If so, there would have been sufficient light to fine the aperture and open the door further.

Cheers.
LC

[Monty]

There was also a fan light above the side door and cottages opposite, some with lights on Lynn.

I don't see why a man, who has just killed someone and in possession of a weapon, would run the risk of entering a crowded club to escape.

As for Brown and Mortimer. Human error, cunning, these things happen.

Monty

[lynn cates]

non-sighting

Hello Neil. Human error, inattentiveness, are quite possible.

And it's easier to go out the gates. Going through the club would explain things ONLY if there were no way to explain the non-sighting.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

The basic idea of "which way did he go after the murders?" is a good one...I've always assumed that after Buck's Row he headed west as the discoverers came from the East......

I know this concerns the Double-event, but a little known sighting immediately following the Chapman murder suggests a suspect headed east on Hanbury St. towards Brick Lane.

"John Thimbleby, coppersmith in Hanbury's brewery, went to the Commercial-street-station at one o'clock yesterday to say that at six o'clock that morning a man attracted his particular attention before he heard of the murder. He was hurrying from Hanbury-street, below where the murder took place, into Brick-lane. He was walking, almost running, and had a peculiar gait, his knees not bending when he walked. (This is a peculiarity of "Leather Apron's" gait). He was dressed in a dark stiff hat and cutaway coat, reaching to his knees. His face was clean shaven, and he seemed about 30 years old. Thimbleby says he can identify him."

A 30+/- year old man dressed in a morning/cutaway coat is known from the Stride murder.
Davis is said to have discovered the body of Chapman about 6:00 am, the men to whom he raised the alarm did not run eastward, but westward, so this doesn't appear to be a recent witness to the finding of the body.
It may have been the killer.

If it was, then here again we have this perpetrator fleeing eastward again like he did from Mitre Sq.

Just something to throw into the mix..

Regards, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

Henry James?

Hello Jon. There was a wandering lunatic named Henry James. He was sighted by Thomas Eade in conjunction with the Chapman murder.

I have wondered whether the Thimbleby sighting were James?

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon. There was a wandering lunatic named Henry James. He was sighted by Thomas Eade in conjunction with the Chapman murder.

I have wondered whether the Thimbleby sighting were James?

Cheers.
LC

Thankyou Lynn, but wasn't he the one wearing white overalls at the time, and he had whiskers?, but "morning coat" was clean shaven.

Regards, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

gait

Hello Jon. I don't recall about HJ's whiskers. Do recall that Thimbleby's man was clean shaven. Both had the "odd gait" which supposedly characterised "Leather Apron." But so did Isenschmid.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon. I don't recall about HJ's whiskers. Do recall that Thimbleby's man was clean shaven. Both had the "odd gait" which supposedly characterised "Leather Apron." But so did Isenschmid.

Cheers.
LC

Funny you should mention that, recently I casually pursued the possibility that our elusive perp. might have contracted syphilis, the red blush to his face?, no eyelashes?, assuming they were the same man.
The limp?, apparently syphilitic arthritis can inflame knee joints, the condition is known as ”Clutton's joints”, or symmetrical hydrarthrosis of the knee joint.

Who knows....

Regards, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

flooded with gaits

Hello Jon. Good thinking. But whatever it was, no strange gait; no "Leather Apron." Problem is, there were 3-5 such people in the area at that time.

Cheers.
LC