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  • Ripper-tour with Henry Moore

    Hi all

    here is a most interesting article from "Le Gaulois", Monday 2 March 1891.
    I hope I'll be soon able to translate it in English, with the help of Stephen Thomas or anybody else.
    It's really worth reading, the journalist being offered a Ripper-tour by Henry Moore, and having also talked to Swanson and Williamson.

    The article was published in 1891, but refers to events following the discovery of the Pinchin Street torso in September 1889 - as we know, Williamson was to die in December.

    The article gives a fascinating insight into Whitechapel, its people and their relations with the police, the Leman Street police station, people in custody, etc... The Jewish-theory is also alluded to by Moore - for there were no Jewish victims...
    Moore himself doesn't seem to endorse it (it rather seems that this theory is already abandoned), and apparently directed his inquiries towards doss-houses.
    This is perhaps the most interesting information, for Moore seems to regularly ask the deputies of lodging-houses: "Nothing new ?"


    The author of the article was one E. Bois-Glavy, of whom I know next to nothing, except that he had been a friend of French poet Robert Caze, killed in a duel in 1886.
    Worth noting also the funny translation of "JtR", given as "Jacques l'Eventreur" - "James the Ripper" !


    Le Gaulois, lundi 2 mars 1891

    "A Whitechapel"

    Le 10 septembre 1889, le cadavre mutilé d'une femme fut trouvé à Londres sous une des arches du chemin de fer qui traverse le quartier de Whitechapel.
    C'était le 9e d'une série qui a rendu célèbre, dans le monde entier, le qualificatif donné au mystérieux assassin, Jacques l'Eventreur.
    Me trouvant à Londres, je m'entretins avec mon confrère et ami, Mr T. Johnson, le distingué correspondant du Figaro, de ce nouveau crime, des conditions dans lesquelles il avait été commis, conditions toujours les mêmes, et je m'étonnais de l'inanité des efforts de la police anglaise à en découvrir l'auteur.

    "Vous ne pouvez vous douter des difficultés que rencontre la police de sûreté pour arriver à un résultat", me dit Johnson, "et si vous le voulez, nous irons, ces jours-ci, voir Mr Williamson, le superintendent général de la sûreté, nous causerons avec lui - il parle supérieurement le français - et nous lui demanderons de nous faire visiter le lieu du crime avec un inspecteur."
    J'acceptai immédiatement, et le lendemain, à 4 heures, un policeman nous introduisit à Scotland Yard - la préfecture de police londonienne - dans le bureau du superintendent général.

    Mr Williamson, qui remplit ces fonctions, est un homme qui doit avoir atteint la soixantaine. Il y a deux ans, il comptait 37 ans de service dans la police londonienne ; c'est dire qu'il connaît à fond tous les dessous de cette ville, qui compte plus de 5 millions d'habitants.
    Après les compliments d'usage, nous lui exposâmes le but de notre visite ; il nous accorda de la meilleure grâce l'autorisation que nous lui demandions, et fit appeler un de ses adjoints, Mr Swanson, chef-inspecteur, auquel il nous présenta selon la coutume anglaise.

    Mr Swanson, un véritable gentleman, nous donna rendez-vous pour le surlendemain à 4 heures, à la station de police de Leman Street, en plein Whitechapel.
    Nous fûmes exacts au rendez-vous, et un agent de police nous fit tout d'abord visiter la station de police, qui occupe toute une maison, avec une grande cour communiquant, par une porte de derrière, sur une rue adjacente.
    Des violons diversement aménagés sont affectés aux différentes sortes de locataires qui les attendent.

    Ceux pour les fous ressemblent à des cellules de maisons d'aliénés ; ceux destinés aux voleurs leur donnent un avant-goût de ce qui les attend à Newgate ou autre prison londonienne, et enfin les cellules destinées aux ivrognes, fort nombreux dans ce quartier, ont une installation toute spéciale. Les banquettes sont à claire-voie et le plancher percé à jour permet de déverser à profusion les seaux d'eau destinés à faire disparaître ce qui a pu gêner les amateurs trop passionnés de gin ou de whisky.

    Du samedi soir au lundi matin, ces violons sont plus que bondés, et un crédit tout spécial est affecté pour sustenter ces ivrognes, qu'on nourrit de café noir et de tartines de beurre.
    Cette visite terminée, Mr Swanson, dont d'autres affaires réclamaient la présence, nous confia aux soins de Mr Henry Moore, inspecteur du CID, et nous nous mîmes en route.
    En chemin, Mr Moore dit qu'il se trouvait à Brighton, où il prenait des bains de mer, et qu'il avait subitement été rappelé pour procéder à l'enquête sur ce nouveau crime, parce que l'année précédente, il avait pu reconstituer l'identité d'une femme assassinée dans les mêmes conditions, le 9 novembre 1888.

    Jane Kelly avait été découpée en une certaine quantité de morceaux par son assassin, qui s'était plu à les semer dans divers endroits ; la Tamise avait hérité de la tête, et grâce à son flair et à sa patience, Mr Moore était parvenu à reconstituer l'identité de la victime.
    L'assassin n'avait pas été retrouvé pour cela, mais c'était tout au moins une satisfaction obtenue.

    "Quant au crime d'aujourd'hui", nous dit Mr Moore alors que nous arrivions sous l'arche du pont où le cadavre avait été retrouvé, "nous n'avons rien pour nous guider. Voyez la place où le tronc humain a été ramassé entièrement nu, couché sur le côté, les bras repliés sur la poitrine ; c'est l'une des arches d'un viaduc de chemin de fer dont rien ne défendait l'accès.
    Il est évident que l'assassin a jeté là son paquet, comme il eût jeté un paquet d'ordures ; mais comment n'a-t-il attiré l'attention de personne ? Comment a-t-il transporté le cadavre ? Sous les deux arches voisines, trois hommes dormaient. Ils disent n'avoir rien vu, rien entendu. C'est possible, après tout : l'indifférence est la règle de ce monde, qui a des motifs pour ne pas s'occuper des affaires du voisin."

    "Je vais vous montrer", continua Mr Moore, "les divers endroits où les autres cadavres ont été trouvés, et vous jugerez par vous-mêmes de la facilité avec laquelle les assassins peuvent échapper à nos recherches."

    Nous traversons un dédale de ruelles, nous entrons dans d'horribles impasses. Voici "l'Allée du Sang", ainsi surnommée parce que c'est là que se livrent les combats de malfaiteurs.
    Dans la cour voisine, espèce de cité, couchent chaque nuit 2000 individus, le rebut de cette épouvantable population.
    Quelques uns, une vingtaine, sont là et nous regardent avec des yeux féroces.

    "Aucun de ces individus", nous dit Mr Moore, "ne se ferait scrupule de vous donner un coup de couteau pour un penny (deux sous)"; cela nous jette un froid.
    Cette petite boutique, où l'on paraît vendre du lard et des oeufs, est le repaire d'un prêteur à la journée ; il réalise 2000 francs de bénéfices par semaine, en avançant aux camelots quelques shillings pour acheter les poires, les pommes, les boîtes d'allumettes qu'ils vont ensuite revendre par la ville.

    Nous pénétrons dans une petite taverne. Mr Moore y est connu ; les trois ou quatre consommateurs qui y sont assis, sur des bancs de bois, le regardent avec une méfiance mélangée de crainte et plongent leur nez dans leur pot de bière. Un verre de gin, et Mr Moore ayant échangé quelques mots à voix basse avec le cabaretier, nous sortons.

    "C'est", nous dit mr Moore, "le club des brigands, c'est là qu'ils se réunissent tous les soirs et que se tient une sorte de bourse au crime, ils s'indiquent et se vendent les coups à faire."

    Nous ne sommes pas fâchés d'être dehors ; nous arrivons à Mitre Square.
    Une cour assez vaste, au milieu de laquelle se trouve un trou entouré d'une muraille à hauteur d'appui : c'est le réceptacle à ciel ouvert de toutes les ordures des locataires du square.
    Deux enfants sont au fond du trou, ils y jouent avec des choses sans nom. Sur des cordes tendues en travers du square sèchent des loques.

    Le 30 septembre 1888, on trouvait dans Mitre Square le corps de la fille Eddowes ; le cadavre était mutilé, et personne, suivant la coutume, n'avait rien entendu.
    Ce même 30 septembre, au coin de Berner Street, à 10 minutes de Mitre Square, on découvrait un autre cadavre, celui d'Elizabeth Stride ; la gorge était coupée, mais Jack the Riper (sic) n'avait pas, sans doute, eu le temps d'accomplir les mutilations ordinaires.

    Nous traversâmes ensuite le quartier des Juifs. Les affiches sont en hébreu, on y parle hébreu, et il y a un journal dans cette langue. Sur le pas des portes grouillent des enfants dépenaillés, des femmes au type très accentué y font le triage des immondices. Une puanteur épouvantable s'échappe de ces chiffons, de ces os, de ces arêtes de poisson, puanteur compliquée de l'odeur d'une épaisse fumée que vomit une cheminée monumentale dans laquelle on brûle tous les détritus du quartier.
    Mr Moore nous assure que toute cette population est honnête. Cependant il nous fait remarquer que pas une femme assassinée n'était juive, ce qui a d'abord amené cette supposition que le meurtrier appartenait à cette religion et exerçait une vengeance quelconque. Il y a dans ce quartier 10 ou 12000 tailleurs, presque tous allemands ou polonais ; ils étaient alors en grève et tenaient des meetings dans ces rues où il ne passe pas de voiture.

    Poursuivant notre course nous arrivons à Brick Lane dans une maison modèle, construite exprès pour les ouvriers.

    Le 7 août 1888, on relevait sur le palier du premier étage, à côté des lieux d'aisances, le corps de Martha Turner, percé de 39 blessures. Martha Turner n'habitait pas la maison, et le criminel est resté inconnu. L'escalier de ces bâtiments étant extérieur, il est aisé de s'y introduire ; mais, quand on traîne un cadavre, cela peut offrir quelques difficultés.

    Le plus extraordinaire dans ces meurtres, d'après Mr Moore, c'est que le coupable ne laisse pas la moindre trace de son passage et que l'on ne s'explique pas comment il transporte ses sinistres fardeaux.

    "Nous ne pouvons", nous dit Mr Moore, "tirer que très peu de renseignements des gérants de ces garnis [= common lodging houses] devant lesquels vous vous trouvez ; leurs locataires sont pour eux des numéros qu'ils ne veulent même pas connaître." Certains de ces garnis reçoivent jusqu'à 500 personnes par nuit, moyennant 8 pence (80 centimes) payés d'avance. Le premier couple venu se procure un asile tranquille pour la nuit. Toutefois, c'est dans ces garnis que Mr Moore espère trouver un jour l'insaisissable criminel.

    "Rien de nouveau ?" demande-t-il aux gérants qui le saluent.
    "Rien de nouveau", répondent-ils - et nous passons.

    "100 constables vont", nous dit-il, "pendant 3 mois, fouiller nuit et jour, la nuit surtout, le quartier de Whitechapel, et suivant l'expression anglaise, nous ne laisserons pas une pierre sans la retourner ; mais nous cherchons une aiguille dans une botte de foin, il convient de ne pas l'oublier."

    Sur ce, nous quittâmes Mr Moore, qui nous proposa de revenir dans la soirée ; nous le remerciâmes et déclinâmes son offre ; nous étions rompus, nous avions marché trois heures, et nous n'avions pas fait trois kilomètres à vol d'oiseau.
    Quand, une heure plus tard, le cab nous arrêta dans Regent Street, devant le café Royal, il nous sembla, à Johnson et à moi, que nous sortions d'un horrible cauchemar.

    E. Bois-Glavy.


    Amitiés all
    David
    Last edited by DVV; 01-24-2010, 01:09 AM.

  • #2
    Many thanks for taking the trouble to post this fascinating account.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi David

      Apparently Bois-Glavy himself fought a duel with another journalist in January 1882, with swords.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Chris,

        I'm pleased you like it.
        For those who can't read French, I'll try to make the relevant sections more intelligible.
        Moore's opinions are interesting, indeed.
        - Jews, in his opinion, seem the most honest people of the district.
        - The Jewish-theory seems already abandoned.
        - Jack could be a dosser - a perfect place to hide (contrary to the opinion of Bond and Anderson).
        - The Pinchin Street victim could well be Jack's (hence his suggestion that even the canonicals weren't killed on the spot).

        Leman Street Police Station: cells there are ready every weekend for 3 main categories : madmen, drunkards, thieves.

        Hi Robert,

        thanks for the info.
        I remember Chesterton stating that duel was definitely a French tradition.
        As always, my favourite writer is right, isn't he ?

        Amitiés messieurs,
        David
        Last edited by DVV; 01-24-2010, 02:55 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Very interesting account
          For my own use I am doing a translation and will post tomorrow (Sunday)
          Here is the start of it:


          On the 10th September, 1889, the mutilated body of a woman was found beneath one of the arches on the railway line which crosses the Whitehapel district.
          This was the 9th in a series which has made famous throughout the whole world the nickname given to the mysterious killer, Jack the Ripper.
          Finding myself in London, I talked with my colleague and friend, Mr. T. Johnson, the distinguished Figaro correspondent, of this new crime, of the conditions in which it had been committed - still the same conditions - and I was amazed at the ineptitude of the English police in their efforts to find the perpetrator.
          "You cannot doubt the difficulties which the detectives encounter to achieve some result," Johnson told me, "and, if you wish, we will go this very day to see Mr. Williamson, the general superintendent of the detective force, we will consult with him - he speaks French very well - and we will ask him to arrange for us to visit the scene of the crime with an inspector."
          I accepted immediately, and the following day, at 4 0'clock, a policeman at Scotland Yard - the headquarters of the London police - showed us into the office of the general superintendent.
          Mr. Williamson, the holder of this office, is a man who must be all of sixty years of age. Two years ago he reached 37 years of service in the London police. This means that he has a deep understanding of the underworld of this city of more than 5 million inhabitants.
          After the usual civilities we explained the purpose of our visit. He granted us with a very good grace the permission we sought and summoned one of his adjutants, Mr. Swanson, a chief inspector, to whom he introduced us in the customary English manner.
          Mr. Swanson, a true gentleman, arranged a meeting for us two days later at 4 o'clock, at Leman Street police station in the heart of Whitechapel.
          We arrived promptly for the meeting and a police officer first took us on a visit round the police station. It occupies a whole building and has a large courtyard at the back from which a rear door leads onto the adjoining street.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hats-off, Chris Scott !

            Amitiés,
            David

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by DVV View Post
              Moore's opinions are interesting, indeed.
              - Jews, in his opinion, seem the most honest people of the district.
              - The Jewish-theory seems already abandoned.
              I think the view that the Whitechapel Jews were more law-abiding than the Gentiles was pretty widespread.

              It's interesting that Moore seemed to think that the fact that all the victims were Gentile might be an indication that the killer was Jewish. If anything, I'd have thought it would be the other way round. But in any case, my impression has always been that there were so many more Gentile prostitutes in the area that no conclusion could be drawn from the fact that there were no Jewish victims.

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Chris,

                It's interesting that Moore seemed to think that the fact that all the victims were Gentile might be an indication that the killer was Jewish.
                Yes, it's interesting. I remember this having been discussed on boards.
                Now we know this argument had already been put forward in 1888-89.

                If anything, I'd have thought it would be the other way round.
                That's not my impression...
                1: Moore says "all this population is honest" (although I take your point that it was a widespread view).
                2: "However, he points out that none of the murdered women was Jewish, which, at first, led to the supposition that the murderer..."
                3: according to Moore, Jack was most certainly a dosser - ie: a perfect nobody, whose religion cannot be deduced at this stage.

                But in any case, my impression has always been that there were so many more Gentile prostitutes in the area that no conclusion could be drawn from the fact that there were no Jewish victims.
                I agree... And that could well have been Moore's opinion too.

                Amitiés,
                David

                Comment


                • #9
                  On the 10th September, 1889, the mutilated body of a woman was found beneath one of the arches on the railway line which crosses the Whitechapel district.
                  This was the 9th in a series which has made famous throughout the whole world the nickname given to the mysterious killer, Jack the Ripper.
                  Finding myself in London, I talked with my colleague and friend, Mr. T. Johnson, the distinguished Figaro correspondent, of this new crime, of the conditions in which it had been committed - still the same conditions - and I was amazed at the ineptitude of the English police in their efforts to find the perpetrator.
                  "You cannot doubt the difficulties which the detectives encounter to achieve some result," Johnson told me, "and, if you wish, we will go this very day to see Mr. Williamson, the general superintendent of the detective force, we will consult with him - he speaks French very well - and we will ask him to arrange for us to visit the scene of the crime with an inspector."
                  I accepted immediately, and the following day, at 4 0'clock, a policeman at Scotland Yard - the headquarters of the London police - showed us into the office of the general superintendent.
                  Mr. Williamson, the holder of this office, is a man who must be all of sixty years of age. Two years ago he reached 37 years of service in the London police. This means that he has a deep understanding of the underworld of this city of more than 5 million inhabitants.
                  After the usual civilities we explained the purpose of our visit. He granted us with a very good grace the permission we sought and summoned one of his adjutants, Mr. Swanson, a chief inspector, to whom he introduced us in the customary English manner.
                  Mr. Swanson, a true gentleman, arranged a meeting for us two days later at 4 o'clock, at Leman Street police station in the heart of Whitechapel.
                  We arrived promptly for the meeting and a police officer first took us on a visit round the police station. It occupies a whole building and has a large courtyard at the back from which a rear door leads onto the adjoining street.
                  Variously appointed cells are tailored for the different sort of inhabitants who will occupy them. Those for the insane resemble the small cells in the asylums; those meant for thieves give them a foretaste of what awaits them at Newgate or some other London prison, and finally those meant for the drunkards, very numerous in this district, have a very special fitting. The benches are clearly visible and the channelled floor allows the copious pouring out of buckets of water meant to dispel anything which might disturb those too fond of gin or whisky.
                  From Saturday evening until Monday morning these cells are packed and a very special kind of care is required to look after these drunkards who are fed on black coffee and buttered bread.
                  When this visit was over, Mr. Swanson, whose attention was required by other matters, entrusted us to the care of Mr. Henry Moore, CID Inspector, and we set off on our way.
                  When we were underway Mr. Moore told us that he had been at Brighton enjoying the sea bathing when he was suddenly recalled to proceed with the inquiry of this new crime, for in the previous year, he had succeeded in establishing the identity of a woman murdered in the same circumstances on 9 November 1888.
                  Jane Kelly had been cut into a number of pieces by her killer who had pleased himself by scattering them in various places. The Thames had received her head, and thanks to his initiative and his patience, Mr. Moore had succeeded in establishing the identity of the victim.
                  This had not led to the killer being discovered, but at least a little satisfaction was had by this discovery.
                  "As to today's crime," Mr. Moore told us as we arrived under the arch where the body had been found, "we have nothing to guide us. There you can see the place where the human torso had been placed, completely naked, placed on its side, its arms folded across the chest. This is one of the arches of a railway aqueduct to which access is completely unhindered. It's evident that the killer threw his burden there, as if throwing down a bundle of manure. But how is it that it attracted no one's attention? How did he carry the body? Under the two neighbouring arches three men were sleeping. They state that they saw and heard nothing. After all, this is possible. In this place, indifference is the rule for those who have good reason to take no notice of the actions of their neighbours."
                  "I will show you, "Mr. Moore continued, "the various places where the other bodies were found, and you can judge for yourselves the ease with which killers would be able to evade our investigations."
                  We crossed a maze of alleyways, we went into horrible cul de sacs. Here we found "Blood Alley," so called as this is the place where miscreants are accustomed to fight. In the adjoining court, a sort of self contained city, 2,000 persons sleep each night, the dregs of this frightful population.
                  About twenty of them were there and looked at us with fierce eyes.
                  "Not one of these persons," Mr. Moore told us, "would have any scruples about stabbing you for a penny (two sous)." That made us turn cold.
                  This little shop, which seemed to sell lard and eggs, is the den of a daily money lender; he makes 2,000 francs a week by lending to the street pedlars a few shillings to buy pears, apples, boxes of matches which they will later resell about the streets.
                  We went into a small tavern. Mr. Moore was well known there. The three or four drinkers who were seated there on the wooden benches looked at him with suspicion mixed with fear, and their noses poked into their beer mugs. After a glass of gin, Mr. Moore exchanged a few words in a low voice with the inn-keeper and we left.
                  "That," Mr. Moore told us, "is a thieves' den. That's where they gather every evening and have a sort of criminal market."
                  We were not sorry to be out in the open.
                  We arrived at Mitre Square.
                  A fairly large square, in the middle of which is a hole surrounded by a small wall tall enough to lean on. This is the place, open to the sky, where the waste of all the properties in the square is thrown. Two children were at the bottom of the hole, playing with things best not named. Washing was drying on lines strung across the square.
                  On the 30 September 1888, the body of the woman Eddowes was found in Mitre Square; the body was mutilated and, as usual, no one had heard anything.
                  On that same evening, 30 September, on the corner of Berner Street, ten minutes from Mitre Square, was found another body, that of Elizabeth Stride. The throat was cut, but Jack the Ripper had, no doubt, insufficient time to perform his usual mutilations.
                  We than crossed the Jewish quarter. The posters are in Hebrew, Hebrew is spoken there, and there is a newspaper in that language. On the doorsteps grubby children grizzled, women of a definite type sorted out their scraps. A frightful stench rose up from these rags, bones of animals and fish - a stench compounded by the stink of the thick smoke belching out from a huge chimney in which was burned all the rubbish of the district.
                  Mr. Moore assured us that all these people were honest. However, he pointed out to us that not one of the murdered women was Jewish, which initially led to the supposition that the killer was of that (Jewish) religion and was carrying out some kind of vengeance. There are in this district 10-12,000 tailors, nearly all German or Polish. They were then on strike and held meetings in the streets where no vehicles passed.
                  Proceeding on our way, we came to Brick Lane and visited a model dwelling, built specially for workers.
                  On the 7 August 1888, there was found on the first floor landing, next door to the toilets, the body of Martha Turner, stabbed with 39 wounds. Martha Turner did not live in the building and the killer remained unknown. The staircase of these buildings is external and so access is easy; but dragging a body there could be challenging.
                  The most extraordinary feature of these murders, according to Mr. Moore, is that the perpetrator leaves not the slightest trace of his presence and no explanation is forthcoming as to how he carries his grim burdens.
                  "We cannot," Mr. Moore told us, "get more than the slightest of information from the managers of these common lodging houses in front of which you are now standing; their residents are to them just numbers that they don't even want to know."
                  Some of these lodging houses accommodate up to 500 person per night, paying 8 pence (80 centimes) in advance. The first couple to arrive find themselves a quiet haven for the night. Anyway, it is in these lodging houses that Mr. Moore expects to find the elusive criminal.
                  "Nothing new?" he asks the managers who greet him.
                  "Nothing new," they reply and we leave.
                  "100 police constables went," he tells us, "for three months, searching night and day - especially at night - in the Whitechapel district and, to quote an English expression, we left no stone unturned. But, we must not forget, we are looking for a needle in a haystack."
                  At this point we left Mr. Moore, who suggested that we return in the evening. We thanked him for his offer but declined. We were shattered; we had walked for three hours and we had not covered three kilometres as the crow files.
                  When, one hour later, our cab stopped in Regent Street in front of the Cafe Royal, it seemed to Johnson and me that we were waking from a dreadful nightmare.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Chris, David,

                    Many thanks for the complete translation and finding of this item.


                    Does anyone know where the "huge chimney in which was burned all the rubbish of the district was?

                    However, my main point is this...I start to wonder exactly what the point of telling press people things actually is when I see the comment below....

                    When we were underway Mr. Moore told us that he had been at Brighton enjoying the sea bathing when he was suddenly recalled to proceed with the inquiry of this new crime, for in the previous year, he had succeeded in establishing the identity of a woman murdered in the same circumstances on 9 November 1888.
                    Jane Kelly had been cut into a number of pieces by her killer who had pleased himself by scattering them in various places. The Thames had received her head, and thanks to his initiative and his patience, Mr. Moore had succeeded in establishing the identity of the victim.

                    This had not led to the killer being discovered, but at least a little satisfaction was had by this discovery.

                    Hang on...Henry Moore in Brighton on MJK's murder?
                    Yet another top policeman not around when a murder occurs?
                    Is there any limit of the amount of coincidences in this case?
                    Her head in the Thames?
                    You mean to tell me that the most gruesome murder Whitechapel had ever witnessed, only 3 years later is being confused with another one? There is no way that this high ranking policeman would EVER forget the mutilations and details of MJK's demise. Dew, and the Pall Mall gazette said Moore was "in charge" of the Whitechapel murders...
                    He is also responsible for the interview with R Harding Davis (1889) of the Philidelphia Press, talking in THAT interview of "....different parts of the body on nails and hung over the back of chairs"

                    Hang on, I can understand the over doing of the interview from 1889 to colour the scene (once), but also the "head missing" bit in another interview...that smells to me.
                    It spells of more disinformation. I am sorry, but this high ranking policeman could NOT have had THAT bad a memory. And that long AFTER the crime, to tell such a whopping fib serves no purpose.

                    You can all call me suspicious of all this, (dont use the word conspiracy, I don't)... but some sort of smokescreen was started during the Whitechapel murders, and was carried on by Lord knows how many policemen AFTER the whole thing stopped. NO ONE agreed. All telling different tales. All more and more at odds with the "facts".

                    MJK's head in the Thames? That's rich.

                    best wishes

                    Phil
                    Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE. 💙


                    Justice for the 96 = achieved
                    Accountability? ....

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Magnificent stuff, Mr Scott. Many thanks!
                      allisvanityandvexationofspirit

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Does anyone know where the "huge chimney in which was burned all the rubbish of the district was?
                        Could be Wentworth Street, Phil.

                        Hang on...Henry Moore in Brighton on MJK's murder?
                        I thinks he's referring to the torso murder, Phil, rather than the Kelly affair.

                        All the best.

                        Garry Wroe.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Garry,

                          Thank you for the Wentworth St thing...didn't know there was a furnace there?.
                          Re Moore...
                          The article refers to Jane Kelly, and the 9th of November. Thats MJK for sure.
                          And I ask again, how is it possible that Hemry Moore, "in charge" of the Whitechapel murder case, can possibly mistake MJK's murder for a Torso killing?

                          There is so much wrong here.

                          best wishes

                          Phil
                          Chelsea FC. TRUE BLUE. 💙


                          Justice for the 96 = achieved
                          Accountability? ....

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Phil Carter View Post
                            You can all call me suspicious of all this, (dont use the word conspiracy, I don't)... but some sort of smokescreen was started during the Whitechapel murders, and was carried on by Lord knows how many policemen AFTER the whole thing stopped. NO ONE agreed. All telling different tales. All more and more at odds with the "facts".
                            My thoughts entirely, Phil. But don't expect too many to agree.

                            Most, it seems, follow the 'JTR was never caught' line.
                            allisvanityandvexationofspirit

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                            • #15
                              Hi Phil and Stephen,

                              Garry is right, the text says he was in Brighton at the time of the Pinchin Street case, and was recalled because he was supposed to have done great work in 1888 in MJK's case.

                              Amitiés,
                              David

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