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  • Flower and Dean Street

    Does anybody know if a known witness or a known suspect lived on Flower and Dean Street and if so, who were they?

    Cheers guys!
    A Violet Plucked From Mother's Grave

  • #2
    Well, it's the centre of gravity of the crimes, and they did canvas the area at the time of the murders because so many of the victims came from that street.

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    • #3
      Hullo Ronnie,

      Well, plenty of witnesses lived in Flowery Dean Street, basically fellow lodgers of the victims or lodging house keepers.

      The most prominent witness I suppose is Eddowes' man John Kelly (No.56), otherwise they're all minor players from No.32, 55 or 56. As for suspects, I'm not so sure.

      But as Dark Passenger says it was a kind of centre of gravity. Around 15 lodging houses in 1888 holding about 700 people (and that does not include occupants of the other houses in the street, or Rothschild Buildings).

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      • #4
        Yes,Ive always thought that the term 'centre of gravity' describes it well. For years since I was young,Ive always wondered what it looked like, now,thanks to John,Rob and Phil on here,Ive some idea.I find the pictures captivating,even haunting,particularly the ones of the children playing in the street, but even the ones from the 60s/70s. Whenever I visit the east end now, I always go into Lolesworth close just as its getting dark,and look west into the near distance at the buildings closing in at the end of the street, to get some idea what is was like. Looking east is harder to picture of course.

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        • #5
          Flower and Dean Street Ripper Residents

          Below are some of the residents of Flower and Dean Street that appear in the Ripper saga :


          John Bennett - Annie Farmer witness - 10 Flower and Dean St

          Elizabeth Tanner - Deputy Keeper - 32 Flower and Dean St

          Thomas Bates - Watchman - 32 Flower and Dean St

          Ann Miller - (Mills) Bedmaker - 32 Flower and Dean St

          One-Armed Liz and Toby - knew Liz Stride - 32 Flower and Dean St

          Catherine Lane - Charwoman - 32 Flower and Dean St

          Liz Stride - 32 Flower and Dean St

          Charles Preston - Barber -32 Flower and Dean St

          Margaret Brown - Deputy Keeper -34 Flower and Dean St

          Elizabeth Burns - Charles Ludwig witness -53 Flower and Dean St

          Catherine Eddowes and John Kelly - 55 Flower and Dean St

          Frederick William Wilkinson - Deputy Keeper - 55 Flower and Dean St

          Smith - Lodging House Keeper - 55 Flower and Dean St

          Margaret Franklin -Alice McKenzie witness- 56 Flower and Dean St

          Mary Nichols - 56 Flower and Dean St
          Last edited by Jon Guy; 05-19-2009, 01:05 PM.

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          • #6
            This thread deserves another look I think, it's something I've been thinking about for a while and only now thought to post. IF our killer was indeed a local who lived in the heart, the very epicentre of his spree. Nothing new in that theory I'm well aware, just say for instance we followed that line of enquiry rather thoroughly...

            How much do we know about the people who lived just off the Commercial Road i.e. Fashion Street, F&D Street etc and what is there if anything to suspect or tie any individual to any of the murders/victims ?

            Who are the most local in terms of suspects living off the Commercial Rd?

            My apologies if this or similar matter has been previously covered in another thread.
            Last edited by El White Chap; 03-28-2014, 09:37 AM.

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            • #7
              I always thought Thrawl St was a safer bet for a possible JtR base.
              Goerge Hutchinson saw his surly,well dressed man emerging from Thrawl St;and Annie Farmers assailant disappeared into Thrawl St.How many coincidences can be attributed to one St?.
              SCORPIO

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Scorpio View Post
                I always thought Thrawl St was a safer bet for a possible JtR base.
                Goerge Hutchinson saw his surly,well dressed man emerging from Thrawl St;and Annie Farmers assailant disappeared into Thrawl St.How many coincidences can be attributed to one St?.
                Frances Coles and Polly Nichols lived together in Thrawl Street. And as I document in my book, the Leather Apron character (the real one, not Pizer) can be traced back to Thrawl Street.

                Yours truly,

                Tom Wescott

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                • #9
                  It seems likely the killer lived or worked near flower & dean, i apologize for stating the obvious

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                  • #10
                    There was a sighting reported in one of the papers (The Star?) of a man sitting on a doorstep on Church Lane in the aftermath of the Stride murder. There is no real reason to suppose that this was her killer but it's not impossible.

                    If a line is drawn from the Stride murder site through Church Lane and extended onwards, and a second line is drawn from the Mitre Square through the site of GSG/Apron on Goulston Street, the two converge around Flower and Dean Street. Highly speculative though!
                    "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

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                    • #11
                      recent article

                      recent article suggesting flower and dean street as the killer's base...

                      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ler-lived.html
                      Last edited by J6123; 06-06-2014, 01:47 PM. Reason: found a better link.

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                      • #12
                        social scientific theories

                        Hello J. I read that, too, in "The Telegraph."

                        It was written by some people with more background in social scientific theories than in actual investigation.

                        Cheers.
                        LC

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                        • #13
                          Very interesting indeed, I was employing the idea myself our Jack was definitely around this area where Flower and Dean street were myself. Fascinating stuff! And thanks for the extra information here too.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by J6123 View Post
                            recent article suggesting flower and dean street as the killer's base...

                            http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...ler-lived.html
                            Just had a read of this article and it states thet F&D was destroyed in the Blitz? Surely it was there mostly intact until the 1970's?

                            Just a comment

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                            • #15
                              Flower and Dean Street & Fashion Street were the two hot areas on the resulting 'heat map' when the American's did the geographic profiling thingy.

                              Question is, which particular persons of interest lived on those Streets?

                              Might be worth a good delve...

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