George Yard Urinal

[Cap'n Jack]

From 1909:

'Police-constable JAMES HAWKINS , 325 H. On Sunday morning, September 15, I was on duty in Wentworth Street. I was about to make use of the lavatory at the top of George Yard. It comes round in a circle, with one door in Wentworth Street and the other in George Yard. You can almost look through. There are four recesses. '

Anyone know if the public urinal was there in 1888?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Cap'n Jack,

A circular urinal with four recesses, and doors in Wentworth Street and George Yard you can almost look through?

It sounds like the ultimate cottage.

Regards,

Simon

[Rob Clack]

Nope. Wasn't there.

Rob

[Monty]

AP,


Taken from the Echo 12 November 1888.



THE SWEETHEART'S ADVENTURE.

The demeanour of the populace was strikingly evidenced last night on two separate occasions. Wentworth-street, Commercial-street, is a thoroughfare close to Dorset-street. At about quarter-past nine loud cries of "Murder!" and "Police!" were heard proceeding from George-yard-building. Police-sergeant Irving and Police-constable 22H D were quickly on the spot, and once rushed into the building, which were a large set of model dwellings. In the meantime the street rapidly filled with persons from the adjoining houses, while some of those who lived in the top storey of the buildings clambered onto the roof in order to intercept any person who might attempt to make his escape by that means. After a little inquiry, however, by the officers, the truth came out. It seems that a Mrs. Humphries, who is nearly blind, lives with her daughter on the second floor of the buildings, and about the time mentioned went to the outhouse for the purpose of emptying some slops. As she went in, a young man who is courting her daughter, and was on his way to visit her, slipped out of the place past her. Mrs. Humphries at once asked who it was. The young man, who, it is said, stutters very badly, made some unintelligible answer, and the old lady, who, like her neighbours, was haunted with the terror of "Jack the Ripper," at once gave the alarm, which was promptly responded to. The mistake, however, was soon explained, and quiet restored to the vicinity.

This story has been amalgamated with the one below it resulting in the myth that Mrs Humphries was scared by Dr William Holt, The White-Eyed man. There is a mention of this in the Ripperologist article written by some unknown a few months ago.

Here is a full account of the 2 Echo reports for that date so you can see what I mean.


Echo
London, U.K.
12 November 1888



THIS DAY'S NEWS.
EAST-END ATROCITIES.
EXCITING SCENES LAST NIGHT.
AN AMATUER DETECTIVE'S ADVENTURE.
ATTEMPT TO LYNCH HIM.
THE HOUR OF THE CRIME.
STRANGE AFFAIR ON FISH-STREET-HILL.

Of course, interest in the terrible crimes of the East-end supersedes all other matters - at least in the district of the horrors. There is but one hope affecting the whole community - that the murderer may be brought to speedy justice. Should he be captured, and should he by any accident fall into the hands of the people, his fate will be certain and inevitable. The consternation and fear which at first seemed to almost paralyse the energy of the district, have given place to a revengeful determination.


THE SWEETHEART'S ADVENTURE.

The demeanour of the populace was strikingly evidenced last night on two separate occasions. Wentworth-street, Commercial-street, is a thoroughfare close to Dorset-street. At about quarter-past nine loud cries of "Murder!" and "Police!" were heard proceeding from George-yard-building. Police-sergeant Irving and Police-constable 22H D were quickly on the spot, and once rushed into the building, which were a large set of model dwellings. In the meantime the street rapidly filled with persons from the adjoining houses, while some of those who lived in the top storey of the buildings clambered onto the roof in order to intercept any person who might attempt to make his escape by that means. After a little inquiry, however, by the officers, the truth came out. It seems that a Mrs. Humphries, who is nearly blind, lives with her daughter on the second floor of the buildings, and about the time mentioned went to the outhouse for the purpose of emptying some slops. As she went in, a young man who is courting her daughter, and was on his way to visit her, slipped out of the place past her. Mrs. Humphries at once asked who it was. The young man, who, it is said, stutters very badly, made some unintelligible answer, and the old lady, who, like her neighbours, was haunted with the terror of "Jack the Ripper," at once gave the alarm, which was promptly responded to. The mistake, however, was soon explained, and quiet restored to the vicinity.


A DOCTOR'S NARROW ESCAPE

The evil fate which may befall those who interest themselves too deeply in the police business of the matter was strikingly exemplified at a later hour of the night in the same neighbourhood. In this case the hero of the exploit is a gentleman. Who was at first stated to be a doctor, who had taken on himself to discover the perpetrator of the crime through his own exertions. To use the words of a reporter describing the scene:- "About ten o'clock last night the idle and inquisitive crowd, who since the ghastly discovery was made have ? Dorset-street and its immediate neighbourhood had their attention attracted to the extraordinary behaviour of a man who for some short time before had been officiously making inquiries, and generally conducting himself to an unusual manner. Over a pair of good trousers he wore a jersey in place of a coat, and his face was most palpably artificially blacked. His manner led to considerable remark, and at last a cry was raised that he was 'Jack the Ripper.' In the prevailing state of the public mind in the district this was quite enough to flame the anger of those in the street, and he was at once roughly seized by two young men - one a discharged soldier. Fortunately for him, there was a large number of policemen about, both in uniform and plain clothes, by whom he was at once surrounded on the first alarm being given. He at first resisted capture, but, happily for himself, soon realised his position, and consented to go quietly to Leman-street Police-station. Meanwhile, the officers who had him charge had the greatest difficulty in saving their prisoner from the fury of the mob, who amid the wildest excitement made the most desperate endeavours to lynch him. Sticks were raised in a threatening manner, and the man for a while was in great danger. As it was, he was very roughly handled and considerably bruised by the time he reached the police-station, where he gave his name and address, which are withheld by the police authorities. He stated that he was a medical man, and had disguised himself in the absurd manner above described, in order to endeavour to discover and apprehend the perpetrator of the Whitechapel horrors. He also gave such particulars of himself as enabled the police to quickly substantiate their accuracy, and to discharge him after a short detention in the cells."


Old stick.

[John Bennett]

Ah, I see Rob got there before me.

Anyway. No it wasn't there.

JB

[John Bennett]

But this is the building in question. I assume the two bricked-up doors are to the urinal.

[Cap'n Jack]

Ah you East End experts... so there was a primitive privy in George Yard, and I have found records of people taking the piss there from 1884.
Thanks Monty; and thanks Simon for the cottage industry. Nice one. Gave me a rare chuckle.
We must take a few skips in time to get us back to the LVP and then realise that such urinals were commonly used by women as well, to take a piss, or the piss - like some of you blokes do - dump unwanted babies, or pick up a trick; or even rob someone.
And that many of the murder sites were places for taking the piss.
Buck's Row. Hanbury Street. Berner Street. Miller's Court... and George Yard.

[John Bennett]

AP,

I looked at the 1873, 1894 and 1916 OS maps and the only map that indicated a urinal there was the 1916 one. That of course doesn't mean there wasn't one before, it may not have been marked.

However, the Goads are quite enlightening - here's 1890 and 1938. It would seem that the urinal was in the curved building (the one in the previous photo) which was obviously built some time between 1896 and 1916.


Also note that on the 1890 map there is an indication that the buildings on that corner were 'to be demolished'.

In which case it would be interesting to hear the 1884 account/s you speak of. Although this now makes it look like I have an unhealthy interest in urinals.
Oops.

[Monty]

How embarrassing John.

Least you got the correct urinals.

Speaking of which, whilst doing Wiki research, I noted there is a mention of urinals in St James Place though they seem to disappear in some accounts and reappear some years later.

Aint it a bugger when that happens?

Monty

[Stewart P Evans]

Quite frankly the whole subject p*sses me off.

[Robert]

So we're looking for a killer with a weak bladder. No time to disembowel Martha.

39 stabs and then "Do you think I might be excused?"

Pte Godfrey

[Cap'n Jack]

As ever I come from the gutters, and in doing so explore the urinals.
It strikes me that the Whitechapel Murderer was a young man of extraordinary sexual confusion, who would have been drawn to the vice and squalor of the public and private urinal, for these urinals were the haunt of the supressed gay men of the age who sought out their bit of rough in such salubrious establishment.
Rather than rogered they often ended up robbed, and many court cases from the LVP reflect this deliciously immoral trend; and of course many cases never even reached court because the gent did not wish to admit that he had been 'cottaging' in the urinal.
The LVP urinal was the place for buggary, robbery, blackmail... but more than that it was also the haunt of the 'low-class prostitute' who also frequented these gentile establishments, to relieve themselves, and others if the opportunity arose.
So all in all a veritable magnet for a troubled young man who while waiting to be 'cottaged' in the urinal might have been approached, late at night, by some old prostitute looking for a bed for the night; and I guess his reaction might have been very, very violent.
I think it a mistake to imagine that the Whitechapel Murderer may not have also attacked and murdered men, the case I found of a train rolling into Aldgate station with the hacked remains of a murdered man in a carriage, quite alone, in the same time frame as the other murders, does raise interesting possibilities and questions, especially when it is considered that the man in question was murdered in about two minutes flat between stations.
I was also recently able to find a case where a man lay in wait in a public latrine in Whitechapel and as a woman walked past he flew out, stabbed her four times, and then ran off into the night.
With my head down the bog I wish you down a well.

[John Bennett]

... for these urinals were the haunt of the supressed gay men of the age who sought out their bit of rough in such salubrious establishment.

I guess some things never change. I'm sure such places were used for exactly the same purposes they are today, and that doesn't just mean going to the toilet.

[John Bennett]

I don't know whether it is worth bringing this thread back up again, but I'm still curious as to what AP's specific point was regarding the George Yard urinal.

The question about whether it existed in 1888 seemed to be swiftly answered, but the particular relevance seemed somewhat hazy.

[c.d.]

Ah, the age old question -- to pee or not to pee.

c.d.