George Yard Urinal

[John Bennett]

Ah, the age old question -- to pee or not to pee.

c.d.

"That is the question", indeed, cd.

The initial question was answered. Then it all went a bit funny, as if the poster who asked it already had the answer. But thought they'd ask it anyway.

[Mascara & Paranoia]

As ever I come from the gutters, and in doing so explore the urinals.
It strikes me that the Whitechapel Murderer was a young man of extraordinary sexual confusion, who would have been drawn to the vice and squalor of the public and private urinal, for these urinals were the haunt of the supressed gay men of the age who sought out their bit of rough in such salubrious establishment... etc.

Tabram's murderer, perhaps, but not the Ripper. See what I did there?

[Sam Flynn]

I'm still curious as to what AP's specific point was regarding the George Yard urinal.

...will it stand up to scrutiny?

[Natalie Severn]

Do you really think Cutbush stood about "cottaging" ,Ap?I did read he was very keen to get off to "the fields" in Hampstead,according to the couple in Camden he met,and apparently this is where people are often seen cruising or even going doggie as one Hampstead lady wrote in her local paper ,when objecting to activities she witnessed when taking her peeks for a walk on the Heath.
But none of the policemen who saw Thomas Cutbush"s drawings ever mentioned seeing drawings of well hung hunks or anything -all they spoke of were drawings of female mutilations or drawings and cut outs of women in pink tights .

[Cap'n Jack]

Thanks Natalie, but for my money Thomas was far too sexually immature - bewildered is perhaps a better word - to have indulged his good self in 'cottaging' or the like, but he would have possessed the childish fascination for all things hidden and forbidden; and much as I did - when a mere child - stuck his wet finger into an electrical outlet just to test the powers of god... and got a shock.
You must remember that Thomas believed he had syphillis simply through the power of association rather than actual events from the real world, he had seen the adverse effects of quick and untimely sexual partnership on the world that surrounded him; and he very likely and firmly believed that he had contracted syphillis by relieving himself in the same public latrine as the many unfortunates and 'cottagers' who frequented such establishments.
I think you'll agree that association plays a massive role in the behaviour of such young and sexually complicated men; and that Thomas would have been drawn like an unwilling moth to any light that shone at night in Whitechapel.

[Natalie Severn]

Yes,I follow you in that so far AP.If Thomas had the illness that I think he had-paranoid schizophrenia -I very much doubt he had ever had rumpy pumpy with anyone of either sex ,least of all a stranger -either "unfortunate" or "cottager", so I entirely agree with you.I also think he would have scarpered very, very fast had a bloke come on to him-either to rush off to get his gun or to purchase a Houndsditch bowie knife to deal with the culprit and probably ,as you say,the same would be true had one of the ladies of the night come on to him. Moreover,with his extreme hypochondria,I doubt he had ever even put his bare bottom on the seat of a privy in a Whitechapel back yard,let alone presented it to a "cottager"or "unfortunate" ---nevertheless, his syphilis could have been the imaginary outcome of latent but suppressed desire.

[c.d.]

"Rumpy Pumpy"? Lord, you English people have the best expressions, I swear.

c.d.

[Cap'n Jack]

Natalie, I think his reaction may have been very different if that bloke had approached him in an overtly sexual manner when they were perfectly alone. I believe the decisive factor to have been in the approach of the victim, leading to a narrowing window of opportunity to flee on the part of the killer, when he was looking into the mirror of course.
He wanted to be Jack the Lad but...

[Stephen Thomas]

Doctor: I'm afraid you have syphilis

Patient: I must have caught it in a public toilet

Doctor: That's an odd place to take a woman

[Sam Flynn]

Doctor: I'm afraid you have syphilis

Patient: I must have caught it in a public toilet

Doctor: That's an odd place to take a woman

Or, a variant on that:

Doctor: I'm afraid you have VD.
Patient: I must have caught it in a public toilet.
Doctor: Since when have you taken to chewing toilet-seats?

[Natalie Severn]

Again,I agree with you Ap.Thomas was first and foremost a narcissist and very immature and childish at that. I dont doubt the repressed tendencies were there but he would almost certainly have had a bout of heterosexual or homosexual panic in either case,had an approach been made to him in the circumstances you discuss-in fact I suspect he would have been so terrified he might even have developed a transient psychosis.Is that what you were getting at may have happened in Hanbury Street when actually needing to use the privy there he was confronted by the desperate cash strapped Annie who had followed him in there? Poor Annie.

[Natalie Severn]

c.d.---I am just being being as graphic as possible-rumpy pumpy being the very last type of activity Thomas would have been involved in---much safer to draw pink tights on card dolls when not cutting out their card board entrails and kidneys.

[c.d.]

Hi Natalie,

I was simply complimenting you on your descriptive powers. I am always amazed and greatly amused at some of the things that come over the pond. Keep up the good work.

c.d.

[Natalie Severn]

Why Thankyou kindly c.d.!

[John Bennett]

Well, I did ask.

And all we seem to have is a lot of 'perhaps' and 'maybe' and 'probably'. Considering there was no urinal at George Yard in 1888, I cannot see how that particular murder links in with the premise of having one nearby.

The initial question did not receive the answer hoped for (I imagine) so we get a load of supposition instead.

Considering how much of a panning the Dutfield's Yard photo got , all this theorising with little substance to back it up is a bit rich if you ask me.