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  • Eliza Gold was living at 6 Thrawl Street. She was the sister of Catherine Eddowes. Kate stayed with her while she (Eliza) was sick about 3 to 4 weeks prior to her murder. Thrawl Street was close to Fashion Street. Saying 6 Fashion Street could have been deliberate or a simple mistake.

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    • Originally posted by packers stem View Post
      And the couple of occasions you refer to were when ?
      Wilkinson's words are clear
      At Bishopsgate nick and when pawning the boots?

      Papers covering the inquest refer to her as 'Kelly', don't they?

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      • Originally posted by jerryd View Post
        Eliza Gold was living at 6 Thrawl Street. She was the sister of Catherine Eddowes. Kate stayed with her while she (Eliza) was sick about 3 to 4 weeks prior to her murder. Thrawl Street was close to Fashion Street. Saying 6 Fashion Street could have been deliberate or a simple mistake.
        666? 😱

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        • Originally posted by Batman View Post
          If she just gave her surname as Kelly, there was only one on Dorset St., to our knowledge. Yet she also has managed to provide them with the names Mary and Jane and the surname Kelly in the process.
          Not Mary and Jane: "Mary Ann" (a very common combination, as in Mary Ann Nichols, Mary Ann Connelly, etc) and "Jane", but I'll go along with the idea for the sake of light relief.

          Policeman to the first of 800 residents, starting at the #6 end of Dorset Street:

          "Do you know of a Jane Kelly? No? What about Mary Ann Kelly? No? Ann Mary Kelly? No? Ann Jane Kelly? No? Jane Ann Kelly? Kelly Jane? Ann Jane? No? Ah, I know... what about Polly Kelly? No. Well, it was worth a try. Sorry to have troubled you."

          Repeats with a few other people, then gives up the ghost. Meanwhile, similar word-games are being played in Fashion Street, in the hope of finding a "Mary Ann Kelly" there, with equally fruitless results.
          Kind regards, Sam Flynn

          "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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          • Yet Jack the Ripper managed to find one.
            My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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            • Originally posted by DJA View Post
              Yet Jack the Ripper managed to find one.
              He also managed to find a Catherine Eddowes, which is an even rarer name.

              (That was tongue in cheek, of course. I don't believe that the Ripper tracked his victims by name, nor that he necessarily knew what their names were until they were identified in the papers.)
              Kind regards, Sam Flynn

              "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

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              • For the most part,I reckon they were tracking him.

                The first two,on his way home from work.
                My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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                • The name Jane Kelly connected with Dorset St., was even in the paper.

                  Who believes no one who read the papers on Dorset St., made a connection to Mary Kelly living on Dorset St.?

                  I would think if anyone is going to be reading about those murders surely it's his potential victims that want to know. The women of the night. The Unfortunates.

                  This is what they would have read or had read to them...

                  The body of the woman found in Mitre-square has not been identified. For several hours yesterday, Detective Serjeant Outram, accompanied by another officer, was engaged in making inquiries in the lodging-houses in and around Spitalfields, his object being principally to trace the antecedents of the victim. The pawnbroker's duplicates found near the body bear the dates 31st August and the 28th September. The names given on the tickets were Emily Burrell and Jane Kelly, and the addresses, Dorset-street and White's-row, Whitechapel, both being fictitious. Yesterday afternoon Serjeant Outram accompanied two women and a man from a lodging-house in Spitalfields to the mortuary, one of the former stating her belief that the victim was a Mrs. Kelly. After carefully scrutinising the features for some time, however, they were unable to give a decided opinion on the matter. It may be mentioned that the tattoo marks on the arm are slightly obscured from view unless the arm is almost fully exposed; and further, that the nose and face are hacked about to such an extent as to render recognition almost impossible.

                  This is what John Kelly likely read in the papers that alerted him to the fact his wife was the Mitre Sq., victim, a square he had visited previously to view the scene of the crime without knowing.

                  Even though the paper says the names are fictitious, the idea that this didn't even raise someone to think oh we have a Mary Jane Kelly here, seems highly unlikely.

                  It reads more like something investigators would tell the press so they won't get in their way or hound the wrong people.
                  Bona fide canonical and then some.

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                  • Originally posted by Batman View Post
                    The name Jane Kelly connected with Dorset St., was even in the paper. Who believes no one who read the papers on Dorset St., made a connection to Mary Kelly living on Dorset St.?
                    Eddowes hadn't yet been properly identified so, based on the only information available at the time, "Jane Kelly" was apparently the name of the dead woman. Why would anyone have bothered to make any connections in that case? It's not as if police or press expected this to happen: "You know that woman Kelly ripped up in Mitre Square? I think she lives next door. Now, she don't go by the name of 'Jane' and she's not actually dead, but I thought you might like to know."
                    Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                    "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                    Comment


                    • [Coroner] Have you heard her speak of being afraid of any one ? - Yes; several times. I bought newspapers, and I read to her everything about the murders, which she asked me about.

                      Thomas Bowyer stated: I live at 37, Dorset-street, and am employed by Mr. McCarthy. I serve in his chandler's shop, 27, Dorset-street. At a quarter to eleven a.m., on Friday morning, I was ordered by McCarthy to go to Mary Jane's room, No. 13. I did not know the deceased by the name of Kelly. I went for rent, which was in arrears.
                      My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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                      • Originally posted by DJA View Post
                        [Coroner] Have you heard her speak of being afraid of any one ? - Yes; several times. I bought newspapers, and I read to her everything about the murders, which she asked me about.

                        Thomas Bowyer stated: I live at 37, Dorset-street, and am employed by Mr. McCarthy. I serve in his chandler's shop, 27, Dorset-street. At a quarter to eleven a.m., on Friday morning, I was ordered by McCarthy to go to Mary Jane's room, No. 13. I did not know the deceased by the name of Kelly. I went for rent, which was in arrears.
                        Quite simply, the first is believable, the second probably slept with her and won't even remotely admit to knowing her for fear he will be painted a psychopathic homicidal maniac.
                        Bona fide canonical and then some.

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                        • Bowyer lived next door to Michael Kidney.
                          My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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                          • Originally posted by MrBarnett View Post
                            At Bishopsgate nick and when pawning the boots?

                            Papers covering the inquest refer to her as 'Kelly', don't they?
                            Yes
                            Bishopsgate and the pawning of the boots
                            Both were on her return from Kent as I've been saying.
                            I may have good reason to suspect the dropping of the Conway at this point is important

                            I'm not aware of her being referred to as Kelly at any point during the inquest other than the mention of the pawned boots and the name she gave at Bishopsgate
                            You can lead a horse to water.....

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                            • Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                              Not Mary and Jane: "Mary Ann" (a very common combination, as in Mary Ann Nichols, Mary Ann Connelly, etc) and "Jane", but I'll go along with the idea for the sake of light relief.

                              Policeman to the first of 800 residents, starting at the #6 end of Dorset Street:

                              "Do you know of a Jane Kelly? No? What about Mary Ann Kelly? No? Ann Mary Kelly? No? Ann Jane Kelly? No? Jane Ann Kelly? Kelly Jane? Ann Jane? No? Ah, I know... what about Polly Kelly? No. Well, it was worth a try. Sorry to have troubled you."

                              Repeats with a few other people, then gives up the ghost. Meanwhile, similar word-games are being played in Fashion Street, in the hope of finding a "Mary Ann Kelly" there, with equally fruitless results.
                              So you believe just saying Mary Kelly , as 99% would do would be above the intelligence level of the investigating officers ?

                              Middle names are typically an irrelevance
                              Mine crops up as often as my confirmation name
                              You can lead a horse to water.....

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by packers stem View Post
                                Yes
                                Bishopsgate and the pawning of the boots
                                Both were on her return from Kent as I've been saying.
                                I may have good reason to suspect the dropping of the Conway at this point is important

                                I'm not aware of her being referred to as Kelly at any point during the inquest other than the mention of the pawned boots and the name she gave at Bishopsgate
                                In some press reports she was referred to as Kelly.

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