All Roads Lead to Dorset St.,

[MrBarnett]

Surely it isn't stretching things too much to suspect that a Victorian woman in long-term cohabitation with a man named Kelly might have been known to some as Mrs Kelly?

[packers stem]

Surely it isn't stretching things too much to suspect that a Victorian woman in long-term cohabitation with a man named Kelly might have been known to some as Mrs Kelly?

But she never did
Read Wilkinson's testimony and it makes it quite clear that Conway was the name she chose to go by using the phrase "bought and paid for" to emphasise the point
If others wanted to call her what they want due to her partner at the time that was their choice not hers

[Sam Flynn]

https://whitechapeljack.com/wp-conte..._court_map.jpg

Look again at No. 20 (upstairs) Elizabeth Prater. Notice the 2 x ? that are there. One is above Kelly's room and the other is above the storage room. How do you know her room isn't partially over both?

Because there was a staircase, a stairwell and a landing in the way. And Prater said her room was above the shed - not straddling the shed, Kelly's room and the gap between them where the staircase started on the ground floor.

Either way, Prater said the shed was the room under her. So we know they are calling this storage room 'the shed'.

Yes - it was colloquially known as "the shed" to the residents, but it was not shed-like in its construction; it was a front room co-opted to act as a storage space for McCarthy's barrows. Furthermore, calling it "the shed" would not have made it "the only shed in Dorset Street".

One of those arrows points at the storage room. The other to MKs.

Yes, and there are question marks on both arrows, indicating that either Prater's room was at the front over the "shed" (which it was) or it was at the back over Kelly's room (which it wasn't, because another report tells us that a couple lived there).

While the stables is a good find, a stables isn't a shed

It's more of a shed than the front parlour of a domestic dwelling like 26 Dorset Street!

and if she did stay there, then it is the only truth she told in among a list of lies. Why tell the truth about that and lie about everything else?

Well, she wasn't telling the whole truth, was she, because she used a false name on the selfsame pawn ticket.

Anyway, that storage room is much bigger than you are making it out to be.

Whichever way we cut it, it wasn't remotely spacious, that's for sure.

You are also going for the max number of 20 despite the journalist saying 10 to 20.

The article says that Eddowes was occasionally "compelled to share the nightly refuge - a shed in Dorset-street - of a score or so of houseless waifs, penniless prostitutes like herself, without a friend, a name, or even a nickname". (Daily Telegraph, 3rd October 1888)

A "score or so" is "twenty or so". Plus, you can tell from that snippet that this article could well be just a bit of romantic Victorian schmaltz, and indeed the rest of it is written in the same melodramatic manner.

[packers stem]

Okay, but do you think that not a single officer or investigator concerning themselves with these details didn't meet and question the very Mary Kelly who would become the very next victim of the same person that killed Eddowes?

Would depend on what they knew regarding the false name

[MrBarnett]

But she never did
Read Wilkinson's testimony and it makes it quite clear that Conway was the name she chose to go by using the phrase "bought and paid for" to emphasise the point
If others wanted to call her what they want due to her partner at the time that was their choice not hers

If she was so attached to the Conway name, why did she revert to her maiden name when in Wandsworth prison?

[Batman]

She didn't tell the truth about anything at all, except to her partner. Nothing that was written down, nothing she said to officers, was the truth. Yet we are to believe she gave the right address to a stable in all of that?

26 Dorset St. is one figure less than the address she gave of 6 Dorset St. Just take away the 2 and we are talking about the room next to Kellys.

A woman whose name-like she happened to be using the day she was murdered.

Sam how many coincidences do you have going on there with your overall view of the case? Between rejecting Stride and Graffiti and now that Eddowes was staying in Miller's court, and the names Mary and Kelly being used, do you believe there are ANY connections in this case at all???

[Batman]

Would depend on what they knew regarding the false name

Even if they identified her as Eddowes right at the start, why should that prevent them from finding a Mary Kelly on Dorset Street given they have this evidence? How do they know she isn't a real person?

Furthermore, isn't it very odd that investigators, even after discovering Kelly's body and investigating it, aren't discussing these connecting factors much, if at all?

[Sam Flynn]

Okay, but do you think that not a single officer or investigator concerning themselves with these details didn't meet and question the very Mary Kelly who would become the very next victim of the same person that killed Eddowes?

The problem is that Eddowes can be associated with at least two false names/addresses: Jane Kelly of 6 Dorset Street, and Mary Ann Kelly of 6 Fashion Street. Chances are that neither of these women really existed, so the police wouldn't have got very far. They probably realised that they were false names and addresses from the get-go.

[Batman]

The problem is that Eddowes can be associated with at least two false names/addresses: Jane Kelly of 6 Dorset Street, and Mary Ann Kelly of 6 Fashion Street. Chances are that neither of these women really existed, so the police wouldn't have got very far. They probably realised that they were false names and addresses from the get-go.

Let's say you are right and they didn't think anything of it then.

Why aren't they thinking something of it AFTER Mary Kelly of Miller's Court, Dorset street is murdered?

We certainly are.

[DJA]

Let's say you are right and they didn't think anything of it then.

Why aren't they thinking something of it AFTER Mary Kelly of Miller's Court, Dorset street is murdered?

We certainly are.

"In a BBC interview in 1973, an elderly nun at the refuge claimed that she had been a novice there in 1915 and was told by an old sister who was there in 1888 that "if it had not been for the Kelly woman, none of the murders would have happened"

Mary Kelly's murder put an end to the murders.
Doubt it was the big secret most think it was.

Providence Row was originally a stable in Finsbury Square that was used for homeless women and children, which was relocated to Crispin Street in 1868.

[Batman]

"In a BBC interview in 1973, an elderly nun at the refuge claimed that she had been a novice there in 1915 and was told by an old sister who was there in 1888 that "if it had not been for the Kelly woman, none of the murders would have happened"

Mary Kelly's murder put an end to the murders.
Doubt it was the big secret most think it was.

All roads lead to Dorset St.,

[Sam Flynn]

She didn't tell the truth about anything at all, except to her partner. Nothing that was written down, nothing she said to officers, was the truth. Yet we are to believe she gave the right address to a stable in all of that?

But she gave the wrong name on that pawn ticket and, in similar vein to her having plucked a familiar surname (that of her partner) out of the air, there's no reason why a familiar address wouldn't have popped into her head as well.

26 Dorset St. is one figure less than the address she gave of 6 Dorset St. Just take away the 2 and we are talking about the room next to Kellys.

There were a number 16 and 36 Dorset Street as well, so we can't just say "add a 2" because doing so would fit in with a preconceived notion that McCarthy's shed must somehow have been "the" shed referred to in the Telegraph of October 3rd.

At least we know that 6 Dorset Street backed onto stables, which are shed-like of their very nature, and have a track record of providing accommodation to desperate nomads going all the way back to the birth of Jesus. Not that I'm saying that these stables were the "shed" referred to in the Eddowes newspaper report, only that (a) stables resemble sheds more than domestic front rooms do; and (b) these particular stables coincide with an address that Eddowes actually gave.

A woman whose name-like she happened to be using the day she was murdered.

A combination of a very common forename (Jane, not Mary or Mary Jane for that matter) and her partner's surname. No more remarkable than a man choosing "Dave Smith" or "Jim Jones".

Sam how many coincidences do you have going on there with your overall view of the case? Between rejecting Stride and Graffiti and now that Eddowes was staying in Miller's court, and the names Mary and Kelly being used, do you believe there are ANY connections in this case at all???

They're all easily explained without stretching credulity in any way, so I'm not in the least bit fazed by their coinciding.

As to "now that Eddowes was staying in Miller's court", it's yet to be proven that the shed referred to in the DT of 3rd October was McCarthy's "shed" at all, and - given that we know that it was McCarthy's barrow depot - it seems very unlikely that it was.

[DJA]

All roads lead to Dorset St.,

Reckon the story goes back to the 1860s when Mary Ann Kelly was a child.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labouchere_Amendment

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Law_Amendment_Act_1885

[Sam Flynn]

Let's say you are right and they didn't think anything of it then.

Why aren't they thinking something of it AFTER Mary Kelly of Miller's Court, Dorset street is murdered?

Let's be precise. I was Mary Jane (or Marie Jeanette) Kelly who was killed at Miller's Court, 26 Dorset Street. Eddowes' false names referred to Jane Kelly of 6 Dorset Street, and Mary ANN Kelly of 6 Fashion Street.

[DJA]

Let's be precise. I was Mary Jane (or Marie Jeanette) Kelly who was killed at Miller's Court, 26 Dorset Street. Eddowes' false names referred to Jane Kelly of 6 Dorset Street, and Mary ANN Kelly of 6 Fashion Street.

It is not very precise if nobody can find any record of Mary Jane Kelly before her murder.