Ocupants of Miller's Court

[Joshua Rogan]

Is there a full list of the inhabitants of Miller's Court at the time of Kelly's murder?

Post #3 in the thread below contains a map of the court which puts names to many of the inhabitants, but I'm not sure of the provenance of them all. Can anyone help?

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=9437

So far I've got;

No.1 - Julia Vanturney & Harry Owen, inquest testimony
No.2 - the Keyler's, according to Mrs Kennedy/Sarah Lewis, any others?
No.3 - a man who was a market porter, according to the Echo 10th Nov
No.4 - Unknown
No.5 - Mary Ann Cox - inquest testimony
No.6 - Unknown
No.7 - John Clark - ?
No.8 - Elizabeth Bushman - ?
No.9 - Unknown
No.10 - Unknown
No.11 - Unknown
No.12 - Catherine Pickett and husband Dave, Unknown press interview.
No.13 - Mary Jane Kelly
No.19 - Unknown couple,
No.20 - Liz Prater - inquest testimony

Can anyone else add or correct any details?

[Joshua Rogan]

The Echo 10th Nov 1888 also mentions a outlet of women who were apparently residents, but I don't recall hearing mention of them before;

"From investigations made by our reporter this morning, it appears that Mary Jane has been a tenant of Mr. McCarthy's for ten months. When she took the room she was accompanied by Barnett, whom she assured the landlord was her husband. Until recently they lived on the most affectionate terms, a statement to-day confirmed by Annie Govan, a young woman living in the court, who knew the deceased well; while Elizabeth Smith, also lodging there, remarked, "I have known her a long time. She and Barnett were as happy as possible until she gave way to drink." Prior to lodging in Miller's-court, the murdered woman lived at 35, Dorset-streets - a common lodging-house, frequented at the time by Annie Chapman, one of the East-end victims - while her place of abode previous to that was curiously enough in Flower and Dean-street. The front room where the crime was committed is the most public in the court, and the whole of the residents had to pass by the window either on their exit to Dorset-street or to get their water supply."

[Joshua Rogan]

It seems Kelly wasn't the only redhead in the court....Chris Scott posted an article in this thread on JTRForums a few years ago;

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?p=129155

It contains an article from the St Louis Republic 10 November 1888
Which mentions a Mary and (possibly) Kate who live opposite no.13;

"The most interesting individual in Miller's Court was a woman who had intimately known the dead woman. Mary Jane's pal she called herself. Her room is directly opposite the murdered woman, and its agitated proprietor stood in the door urging a young girl with straggling wisps of red hair who had started for beer not to be gone a minute. She assured me she would be glad to talk to me while Kate was away, just to forget the horrors. This woman spoke well of the dead. Her name was Mary, and she had not always been on good terms with the murdered Mary Jane, but they were good friends, though quarrelsome. Mary Jane was pretty before she was cut up, Mary said, and she was only 24, not 30, as she looked, but she would fight and she did not care what sort of a place she lived in.
I was invited to inspect Mary's room as an evidence of the fact that her taste was superior to the murdered Mary Jane's. It was about as big as a horse car. Sleeping and cooking were both done in it. On a clothes line stretched across it a night dress was drying. There was a bed one foot above the floor, a stool, and a nondescript piece of furniture to hold things. The thinnest kitten I ever saw sat on the bedpost. It had been scalded and had a leather collar around its neck. There was milk in a saucer on the floor, showing that the vile air and worse drainage had brought the kitten down in flesh without the help of hunger. When the girl with the red hair came back the woman who had been a friend of Mary Jane drank in a few minutes the quart of beer, relating at the same time many incidents in the lives of herself and her dear friend. At last, with a flood of drunken tears, she declared that she would never dare go out on the streets to earn a living again, observed somewhat inconsistently that lightning never struck twice in the same place, meaning that the murderer would never come back to Miller Court, made the red haired girl swear an oath to stay all night, snatched the amazed thin kitten convulsively to her breast and went to sleep on the bed with her head the wrong way up."

[MysterySinger]

The transient nature of the tenants doesn't at all aid the placing of folks in Miller's Court at the time of Kelly's murder. One thing is for sure, there were far more people there than can be listed. If we include 26 Dorset Street (but exclude 27) there are 42 people listed in the 1881 Census and 45 in 1891.

The recognisable names in 1891 are Henry and Lottie Owen (Julia Cooke / Venturney, Ventorini or variations thereof).

Worth noting that in both the 1888 and 1889 Electoral Register a John Alcock is listed at 7 Miller's Court. Equally interesting that in 1889 at number 26a Dorset Street were Frederick and Samuel Ball. Also, Duncan MacAllen is at number 2 Miller's Court in 1889.

Ominously, John Death and his family are shown at 26 Dorset Street in the 1881 Census. I have lists of the people shown in the 1881 and 1891 Census returns so can post these if they're of any help.

[MysterySinger]

Address 1881
1 Miller's Court Charles Green (34) - General Labourer
1 Miller's Court Mary Green (29) -
1 Miller's Court Robert Brown (21) - Hawker
1 Miller's Court Louisa Wood (20) -

2 Miller's Court Alfred Smith (44) - Butcher
2 Miller's Court Elisabeth Smith (39) -
2 Miller's Court Mary Ann Smith (11) -
2 Miller's Court William Whitehead (18) - Hawker
2 Miller's Court Emma Bland (17) -
2 Miller's Court Alfred Whitehead (16) -

3 Miller's Court Barney Lipman (21) - Fish Porter
3 Miller's Court Sophia Palmer (27) -
3 Miller's Court Thomas Carey (27) - Labourer
3 Miller's Court Anne Shay (20) -
3 Miller's Court Nelly Shay (17) -

4 Miller's Court Lawrence McDonald (22) - Labourer GF
4 Miller's Court Sarah McDonald (27) -
4 Miller's Court Eliza Carbin (40) -
4 Miller's Court Kate Carbin (12) -
4 Miller's Court Charles James Carbin (10 months)

5 Miller's Court Cornelius Hoaks (23) - Hawker
5 Miller's Court Agnes Hoaks (21) -
5 Miller's Court Elizabeth James (36) - Needlewoman
5 Miller's Court Alfred B Knight (3 months)

6 Miller's Court Frederick Smith (41) - Gold Beater
6 Miller's Court Ellen smith (38) - Laundress
6 Miller's Court Edward Tagg (36) - Glass Blower
6 Miller's Court Sarah A Tagg (36) -
6 Miller's Court Cicilia Tagg (16) -
6 Miller's Court Thomas Tagg (15) -

7 Miller's Court

8 Miller's Court

9 Miller's Court

10 Miller's Court

11 Miller's Court

12 Miller's Court

13 Miller's Court

26 Dorset Street John Death (25) - Umbrealla Frame Maker
26 Dorset Street Alice Death (24) -
26 Dorset Street John william Death (5) -
26 Dorset Street Emma Death (3) -
26 Dorset Street Joseph A Death (2)
26 Dorset Street Henry Pound (37) - Bricklayer
26 Dorset Street Ann Pound (34) - Dressmaker
26 Dorset Street Janey Jones (27) - Washerwoman
26 Dorset Street George Wood (40) - Carman
26 Dorset Street Janey Wood (42) -
26 Dorset Street Thomas Paine (28) - Fish Smoker
26 Dorset Street Kate Paine (25) Stay Maker

[MysterySinger]

Address 1891
1 Miller's Court

2 Miller's Court Solomon Shrensky (25) - Costermonger
2 Miller's Court Emily Weiss (24) - Charwoman
2 Miller's Court Lilian Reardon (37) - KN
2 Miller's Court Charles J Reardon (10)
2 Miller's Court Patrick Conlan (39) - Shoemaker
2 Miller's Court Alice Conlan (29) -
2 Miller's Court Bernard Conlan (8) -
2 Miller's Court Alfred Conlan (4) -
2 Miller's Court Michael Conlan (1 week) -

3 Miller's Court Joseph Wadham (61) - Dock Labourer
3 Miller's Court Mary A Wadham (48) -
3 Miller's Court John Wadham (16) -

4 Miller's Court

5 Miller's Court John Payne (42) - Porter
5 Miller's Court Jane E Payne (38) -
5 Miller's Court John Payne (4) -
5 Miller's Court George Southey (36) - Gas Stoker
5 Miller's Court Elizabeth Southey (31) -
5 Miller's Court George Southey (14) -
5 Miller's Court Frederick Southey (8) -
5 Miller's Court Henry Hooker (42) - Stock Dresser
5 Miller's Court Clara E Hooker (35) - Match Box Maker
5 Miller's Court William F Hooker (16) - Iron Boy
5 Miller's Court Eliza Wilson (40) - Fancy Trimmer

6 Miller's Court Thomas North (34) - Boiler Maker
6 Miller's Court Sarah North (26) - Charwoman
6 Miller's Court Katherine Durand (24) - Charwoman

7 Miller's Court Elizabeth Norman (34) - Needlewoman
7 Miller's Court Matilda Merriton (46) - N/K

8 Miller's Court Mary A Jeffrey (53) - Charwoman
8 Miller's Court Edward Jeffrey (23) - Carman

9 Miller's Court

10 Miller's Court

11 Miller's Court Mary A Griffin (19) - Rope Makers Assistant

12 Miller's Court William Harrison (65) - Wire Worker
12 Miller's Court Mary A Harrison (65) -
12 Miller's Court Edward Childs (35) - Hawker
12 Miller's Court Jane Childs (32) - Ironer

13 Miller's Court Thomas Kelly (35) - Waterside Labourer
13 Miller's Court Ann Kelly (39) -
13 Miller's Court Elizabeth Harper (39) - Needlewoman
13 Miller's Court James Harper (42) - Firewood Bundle Maker
13 Miller's Court Mary A Clark (49) - Laundress
13 Miller's Court Charles Clark (13) - Scholar

26 Dorset Street 26 - Henry Owen (49) - Dock Labourer
26 Dorset Street 26 - Lottee Owen (43) -

[Debra A]

Is there a full list of the inhabitants of Miller's Court at the time of Kelly's murder?

Post #3 in the thread below contains a map of the court which puts names to many of the inhabitants, but I'm not sure of the provenance of them all. Can anyone help?

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=9437

So far I've got;

No.1 - Julia Vanturney & Harry Owen, inquest testimony
No.2 - the Keyler's, according to Mrs Kennedy/Sarah Lewis, any others?
No.3 - a man who was a market porter, according to the Echo 10th Nov
No.4 - Unknown
No.5 - Mary Ann Cox - inquest testimony
No.6 - Unknown
No.7 - John Clark - ?
No.8 - Elizabeth Bushman - ?
No.9 - Unknown
No.10 - Unknown
No.11 - Unknown
No.12 - Catherine Pickett and husband Dave, Unknown press interview.
No.13 - Mary Jane Kelly
No.19 - Unknown couple,
No.20 - Liz Prater - inquest testimony

Can anyone else add or correct any details?

This may help?

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=18566

[Joshua Rogan]

The transient nature of the tenants doesn't at all aid the placing of folks in Miller's Court at the time of Kelly's murder. One thing is for sure, there were far more people there than can be listed. If we include 26 Dorset Street (but exclude 27) there are 42 people listed in the 1881 Census and 45 in 1891.

Fantastic MysterySinger, thanks!

The recognisable names in 1891 are Henry and Lottie Owen (Julia Cooke / Venturney, Ventorini or variations thereof).

I remember reading an account of a visit to Room 13 a few years after the murder (possibly 1891?) where a couple were living there; the man lying in bed and showing the still extant bloodstains by his head to the amazed reporter. Could that be Harry and Lottie?

Worth noting that in both the 1888 and 1889 Electoral Register a John Alcock is listed at 7 Miller's Court. Equally interesting that in 1889 at number 26a Dorset Street were Frederick and Samuel Ball. Also, Duncan MacAllen is at number 2 Miller's Court in 1889.

Hmm, John Alcock....John Clark....not too far apart, could be the same occupant of No.7?
I've not heard of 26a before though, any idea where this would be?

Ominously, John Death and his family are shown at 26 Dorset Street in the 1881 Census.

Wow! Do you think he might be the Ripper? Could the mutilations have been carried out with a scythe?

[Joshua Rogan]

Address 1881
2 Miller's Court Alfred Smith (44) - Butcher
2 Miller's Court Elisabeth Smith (39) -
2 Miller's Court Mary Ann Smith (11) -
2 Miller's Court William Whitehead (18) - Hawker
2 Miller's Court Emma Bland (17) -
2 Miller's Court Alfred Whitehead (16) -

Could this Elisabeth Smith be the Liz Smith interviewed in the court in 1888?

3 Miller's Court Barney Lipman (21) - Fish Porter
3 Miller's Court Sophia Palmer (27) -
3 Miller's Court Thomas Carey (27) - Labourer
3 Miller's Court Anne Shay (20) -
3 Miller's Court Nelly Shay (17) -

Aha, a market porter living at No.3. Is this the man Mary Ann Cox mentioned in her inquest testimony?

4 Miller's Court Lawrence McDonald (22) - Labourer GF
4 Miller's Court Sarah McDonald (27) -
4 Miller's Court Eliza Carbin (40) -
4 Miller's Court Kate Carbin (12) -
4 Miller's Court Charles James Carbin (10 months)

I wonder if Kate had wispy red hair?

All fairly long shots, I suppose, given the 7 year gap and transient nature of the inhabitants. But food for thought.

[Debra A]

Could this Elisabeth Smith be the Liz Smith interviewed in the court in 1888?


Aha, a market porter living at No.3. Is this the man Mary Ann Cox mentioned in her inquest testimony?



I wonder if Kate had wispy red hair?

All fairly long shots, I suppose, given the 7 year gap and transient nature of the inhabitants. But food for thought.

Barney Lipman's name comes up a lot in old discussions of leather apron.

[Joshua Rogan]

13 Miller's Court Thomas Kelly (35) - Waterside Labourer
13 Miller's Court Ann Kelly (39) -
13 Miller's Court Elizabeth Harper (39) - Needlewoman
13 Miller's Court James Harper (42) - Firewood Bundle Maker
13 Miller's Court Mary A Clark (49) - Laundress
13 Miller's Court Charles Clark (13) - Scholar

Or maybe this was the couple I was thinking of?

There seem to be a lot less possible tenants from 1891 than 1881. Then again, I suppose a grisly murder wouldn't have helped the stability of the court's occupants - I read that McCarthy said he'd lost 4 tenants within a few days of the killing. Though it's unclear whether or not that figure included poor Mary....

[Joshua Rogan]

This may help?

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=18566

Thanks Debs! I will have a squizz

[Joshua Rogan]

Mmm, interesting post in that thread from Chris Scott;


chris
19th January 2008, 12:48 AM
I have started a separate thread with details of Mary Cluley, a prostitute living in Millers Court very shortly after the Kelly murder.
Below are details of two other Millers Court residents in the Infirmary shortly after Kelly's death. The surname of the first is hard to decipher and any alternative readings would be welcome. (see images below)

Millers Court
Whitechapel Infirmary Admissions
3 Feb 1889
Thomas Gauven?
Aged 22
6 Millers Court
Single
Shoeblack
Cause: Phthisis
Discharged: 22 Feb 1889
Dead


Could Thomas Gauven be any relation to the Annie Govan I mentioned earlier?

[Debra A]

Mmm, interesting post in that thread from Chris Scott;


chris
19th January 2008, 12:48 AM
I have started a separate thread with details of Mary Cluley, a prostitute living in Millers Court very shortly after the Kelly murder.
Below are details of two other Millers Court residents in the Infirmary shortly after Kelly's death. The surname of the first is hard to decipher and any alternative readings would be welcome. (see images below)

Millers Court
Whitechapel Infirmary Admissions
3 Feb 1889
Thomas Gauven?
Aged 22
6 Millers Court
Single
Shoeblack
Cause: Phthisis
Discharged: 22 Feb 1889
Dead


Could Thomas Gauven be any relation to the Annie Govan I mentioned earlier?

Good spot, JR. I'd say you're on to something there.

[Joshua Rogan]

Barney Lipman's name comes up a lot in old discussions of leather apron.

Really? I thought Leather Apron was supposed to be a shoe-maker, not a porter. I don't suppose you have a handy link to one of these old threads?