Timelining and revealing the MM

[mariab]

I'm reading the Tom Cullen obituary and I find it hilarious that he was born in Oklahoma City. Does this state have a history in producing Toms who aspire to become great Ripperologists?

[Jonathan H]

If the Leftist Cullen pilfered Farson's copy of Aberconway, or a copy, then I am glad because finally the name of the chief suspect was given to the public -- in 1965.

That this suspect was not quite what was claimed by the police chief was also vital to get out there.

Apparently Farson in 1959 showed Druitt's death certiifcate to his TV viewers with the name blacked out, only using the initals MJD, at Lady Aberconway's insistence (I wish there was a surviving transcript of this program?)

The discreet Macnaghtens, still hiding Druitt on the verge of the Beatle 60's.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Chris,

Many thanks for the Farson information. Very interesting.

As ever, you are remarkably well-informed.

Regards,

Simon

[Phil Carter]

Hello Simon, Chris,

I wonder whether Farson's "chance" visit to Lady Christabel Aberconway was APART from the visits he had there in order to interview her for two television programmes, one in August and one in later on in the year?

"That's an extraordinary co-incidence!" said Lady Rose McClaren.....

Now which visit came first, one wonders?.....

Weren't the first series of programmes he did for ATV one per month? The first being in February, I believe.

best wishes

Phil

[Phil Carter]

Hello Chris,

You wrote..

The other complicating factor is that it's not clear in what circumstances Cullen saw the notes. There doesn't seem to be any explanation of that in his book, or any acknowledgment of help from Lady Aberconway.

So neither Farson nor Cullen wrote any acknowledgement to Lady Aberconway in the acknowledgements section of their respective books?
Hmmm.

best wishes

Phil

[mariab]

Phil Carter wrote:
So neither Farson nor Cullen wrote any acknowledgement to Lady Aberconway in the acknowledgements section of their respective books?
Hmmm.
Yeah, I noticed that too, but maybe it was her wish as well, so as not to be disturbed by JTR crazies for the rest of her life.

[Phil Carter]

Hello all,

Below, in various posts, I have attempted to put some book quotes together that refer to the memoranda, in the two main versons known. The quotes come from selected books, and all are welcome to add more from other books if they feel like it. These 15 books below, are selected to present a broad idea of the subject. Apologies to any writer, author that I have left out!. I also hope I haven't mistyped or misquoted anyone! Apologies on beforehand if so!

best wishes

Phil

[Phil Carter]

Timelining the author's books re the memoranda (1)

Tom Cullen: Autumn of Terror 1965
Tom Cullen has "seen" the memoranda in typewritten form, we know this from Don Rumbelow's statement in 1975. We do not know whether he was shown them by Lady Aberconway, or Farson's copy of the Aberconway material. Named Druitt, with the bpermission of Lady Aberconway, in his full name.

Robin O'Dell: Jack the Ripper in fact and fiction 1965

In his revised edition of this book from 1966, he was the first person to reveal part of the Scotland Yard version of the memoranda.

Donald McCormick: The Identity of Jack the Ripper, revised edition 1970

Referring to the Druitt suspect book by Cullem, states that Cullen offers "no evidence at all, only surmise.."

Daniel Farson: Jack the Ripper 1972
Said he was taken to see Lady Aberconway in 1959, whereupon she gave him her copy of her father's notes. He was asked by her not to name Druitt, but only his initials. He also made televison programmes in two parts on the subject in 1959, showing M.J.Druitt's death certificate, with the name blacked out. The television programmes were part of a series called Farson's Guide to the British. One was transmitted November 12th 1959.

Don Rumbelow: The Complete Jack the Ripper 1975
Upon asking, he stated that Tom Cullen had "seen" typewritten form of notes. He also stated that in a letter to Philip Loftus sometime after August 1972. Lady Aberconway denied having seen any of her father's notes relating to Jack the Ripper. Also stated that the Aberconway notes were still in her posession. He was also the first person to show a transcribed form of the complete Macnagthen memoranda, following on from Robin O'Dell's part revelation in 1966.

Stephen Knight: Jack the Ripper; The Final Solution 1976

States that Farson and Cullen's books are based upon "..private notes apparently written by Sir Melville Macnaugthen, copied by his daughter The Dowager Lady Aberconway, and recopied by the authors."
States also that the Scotland Yard version is in Sir Melville Macnagthen's own handwriting, "...on white paper bearing only the small oval seal of the Metropolitan Police."

Colin Wilson & Robin O'Dell: Jack the Ripper, Summing up and Verdict 1987

States that Farson appealed for information on Jack the Ripper on his television programme, recieving many letters. "... Mr Farson had his fair share of junk mail, but the obvious public fascinationj for the subject caused him to remember that he had recieved a possibly vital clue before he had access to the copy of Macnaugthen's notes. A Mr Knowles had written to him..." This refers to "The East End murderer, I knew him" document. (my emphasis in bold)

States also that according to Farson himself, Farson's copy of this letter from Knowles was taken from Farson's desk, along with other Ripper material before he could present it, and presented the blacked-out Druitt death certificate.

States that it was not immediately apparent which version Cullen used of the memoranda in reference for his book, but that Don Rumbelow finally got the answer when he asked Cullen.

Quoted Richard Whittington-Egan saying of Cullen's Druitt-based suspect book, 'It won't do, It simply won't do'.

States also that both Farson and Cullen had access to Lady Aberconway's typewritten copies, but that their "..eventual references in their respective books differ in some detail.."

more to follow on next post....

[Simon Wood]

Hi Mariab,

There were no JtR crazies in the early to mid 60s.

They are a unique and unfortunate by-product of the internet age, a triumph of ill-informed opinion over intellect.

Regards,

Simon

[Phil Carter]

Part 2...

Martin Howells and Keith Skinner; The Ripper Legacy; The Life and Daeth of Jack the Ripper 1987

States in the 1888 paperback copy that the notes Farson "stumbled across" when visiting Lacy Aberconway, are a " typewritten transcript of Melville Macnagthen's original rough handwritten jottings-from which, presumably, he made his original draft."

States also that it was not until the BBC programme in 1973, The Ripper File, that Macnagthen's official papers "..became known to a wider audience.."

States also that Cullen had "seen Lady Aberconway's notes for himself." Also questions whether Macnagthen did write the Faron and Cullen version in reference to one paragraph Macnagthen's impression of M.J.Druitt appears. (page 64)

States the unlikelyhood of any collusion between Cullen and Farson, as the latter was not particularly pleased with Cullen writing his book on the subject.

Confirms the existance of the two hand-written pages. Confirms that they are word for word the same as the typewritten version by Farson and Cullen.
State that under comparison with a photocopy of the Scotland Yard original, in Sir MM's handwriting, there was enough to assume that these handwritten pages were in Lady Aberconway's handwriting. They also say that her son considers it "more likely" to be his mother's handwriting.
Tested the paper under ultra violet light giving the conclusion the papers are from the 1930's. State that there was "no doubt" that these papers were a faithful reproduction of the rough jottings which had formed th basis of Sir MM's official draft.
States Lady Aberconway "allowed a third party ("probably her secretary") to type out most of her father's first draft, she prefrred to copy the two highly confidential pages herself."
States that by 1959 she allowed her secretary to copy all the notes, which were then given to Dan Farson.

Paul Begg and Keith Skinner: The Scotland Yard Files 1992

In the revised paperback edition, 1993, it states, when referring to the Melville Macnagthen Scotland Yard version, "It is not known however, for whom the document was written. although the Home Secretary seems probable, and it was not intended that the contents become public knowledge."

Melvin Harris: The True Face of Jack the Ripper 1994

In the revised paperback edition of 1995, it states that the articles in the Sun newspaper of 1894, alerted Macnagthen to prepare a statement, file it in the "Yard" as a "precaution". Claims also that this document was leaked to Major Griffiths for his book.

Stewart Evans and Keith Skinner: The Jack the Rpper Sourcebook 2000

In the revised paperback version, 2001, it notes " an important point to note is that there are various factual errors in Macnagthen's report, an aspect of it which should not be overlooked."

Phillip Sugden; The Complete History of Jack the Ripper, New Edition 2002

States that the copy Farson saw in 1959 was the one that was a copy of a draft report that Major Griffths had copied in 1898 and to which George Sims alluded to in 1903. Refres also to the letter written by Lady Aberconway to the New Statesman of 7th November 1959.

John J Eddleston; Jack the Ripper, An encyclopedia: 2002

States that Lady Aberconway"..transcribedthe Lady Aberconway version of the Macnagthen memoranda from her father's notes and showed the document to Daniel Farson in 1959 when he was researching the murders for his book.." (my italics)

Paul Begg: Jack the Ripper The Definitive History 2005

States that the Aberconway version is "a copy- typewritten by lady Aberconway's secretary, except for two pages..." also that the purpose of the original Macnagthen memoranda is "unknown" , but " may have been written at the request of the Home Office, either for the information of the Home Secretary, or in anticipation of questions being asked in the (House of) Commons."

Paul Begg, Martin Fido and Keith Skinner: The Complete Jack the Ripper A-Z 2010, also all versions of the "A-Z" from 1991, 1992, 1994, 1996.

Refers to the New Statesman letter of Lady Aberconway who denied the likelihood of her father having burnt any of his papers. Shows a photograph of one written page of Lady Aberconway's version of the notes. Quotes at length (as other boks have done) the comparisons between the two versions from Scotland Yard and Lady Aberconway.



I hope this may help some by quoting and from various book sources. Please do not hestitate to correct, add to etc. Thank you for your attention.

best wishes

Phil

[Jonathan H]

To Simon

I presume you mean me.

Well, consider the following:

In the 1891 West of England MP story the un-named Druitt has killed himself but it does not say how -- but it does say he is a surgeon's son, rather fearfully because of the potential for libel.

Seven yeas later, Major Griffiths will refer to the un-named Druitt as having killed himself by drowning in the Thames and being pulled from it, a month dead, on Dec 31st 1888.

Gee, that's close to the knuckle -- if you are worried and wary about libel??

No problem.

This un-named police Super-suspect [really just Mac's] is now a middle-aged doctor whose 'friends' suspected him of being the fiend.

Sigh of relief.

In 1914, Macnaghten would, for the first time, commit his name to a public document about the un-named Druitt.

'Laying the Ghost of Jack the Ripper', arguably a far more imporatnt document than either of his slippery reports -- of which this is a sort of 'third' version.

Mac dumps the Thames detail, never even hinting how the Ripper topped himself.

We might expect him to be equally wary of the surgeon's son detail then?

He is.

It's not mentioned either. He's very cautious.

Actually, Mac hardly tells us anything about the un-named Druitt, except that he carried chalk like a school teacher, and that he was missing from where he resided on the nights of the murders.

But if you are an adult, at home, how can you be 'absented'?

Aren't you just going out for the evening? It's not a prison -- is it?

Unless you had some job, at night -- where you resided -- and were expected to be in?

Montague John Druitt was hidden by Sir Melville Macnaghten.

It's a fact.

He was hidden especially in Mac's pal's Sims' 'shrieking, raving fiend' (1907) who had been twice in a mental asylum -- untrue -- was unemployed but fabulously affluent -- untrue -- and who had no time or capacity to confess anything to anyone after what he did to Mary Kelly -- also untrue.

What is still to be debated is whether it was this posthumous hide-and-seek with Druitt was conscious on Mac's part, or not?

Perhaps it wasn't.

For example, the Railway Murder of 1897, shows for a fact that Mac has fused two different suspects, arguably revealing a propensity to do this memory jui jitsu when it suits him; when it is in an unsolved case relying on his imperfect, over-rated memory -- mixed with a class bias towards helping out 'respectable' families.

[Chris]

For example, the Railway Murder of 1897, shows for a fact that Mac has fused two different suspects...

Unfortunately that's not quite clear. His reference to a suspect having been committed to an asylum has been interpreted as a reference to the insane barrister, Charles Augustin Prideaux - whereas the rest of Macnaghten's narrative obviously refers to Arthur Marshall, the man with the false moustache. The trouble is that we don't know anything about Marshall's later history, and it's possible that he too was committed to an asylum:

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=4839

[Jonathan H]

Yes, you're right Chris.

On what we have, as of now, it is still a reasonable assumption that we have a potential Druitt/Tumblety fusion at work here; the true meaning of Littlechild's letter to Sims though he had no knowledge of the drowned barrister.

If a source turns up showing that the vagrant was packed off to a madhouse, then this will show it to be probably wrong -- though not definitely, but probably.

Debra has already established that the case was a libel tar baby.

I stand by my overall point that Druitt is hidden by Macnaghten, the question is was it deliberate or unconscious?

[Natalie Severn]

Hi All,

Rhododendron hirsutum was the first rhododendron to be classified and named. It was discovered in the 16th century by a Flemish botanist, Charles l'Ecluse, who later became called Clusius.

Over the years growers catalogued many hybrids, including these–

'Jack the Ripper', 1937, Aberconway, Lord, Bodnant, Tal-y-Cafn, Wales
'Jack the Ripper Group', 1937, Aberconway, Lord, Bodnant, Tal-y-Cafn, Wales

Regards,

Arthur Fallowfield

Hi Simon,
Likewise solanum tuberosum was the first potato to be brought to Europe by the Spanish.It can be cooked and served in many ways . Britain however can claim home to the "hot potato' an altogether different type of potato,existing now largely metaphorically.But the "hot potato" was brought into common parlance as a direct result of the failure of the Great Irish Potato Famine . The term was coined by none other than that early "Special Branch" wiz kid,James Monro,soon after conducting intelligence work on the Fenians,who had quadrupled in size [again metaphorically speaking] since the famine . Best thought of as Monro"s [mini] " Trojan horse"-it had its own disruptive coded material concealed within it and hidden inside a recipe book .This was found abandoned in a cupboard in his Edinburgh kitchen .It is believed it was there since he resigned in 1890 and sailed for India for peace and quiet, following the ripper hullabaloo .It is rumoured that if the code can be cracked Jack will jump out from inside the potato and in a flash the mystery will be solved!

[Simon Wood]

Hi Jonathan,

Au contraire, mon brave.

Whilst I may disagree with you on a great number of points, I nevertheless hold your robust views on the subject in high regard.

Regards,

Simon