Interpreting Conflicting Evidence

[Phil H]

Phil probably sides with the doctor’s TOD which is certainly the prudent choice; unfortunately, that doesn’t make it correct.

Not entirely true.

The Dr's view may be useful corroboration for my take on the timing of Chapman's murder, but my view isn't based on that.

I arrived at my conclusion from the times of the other murders that I believe were "Jack's" work - Nichols and Eddowes which was quite a bit earlier than 5ish; and on the lower risk to the killer of operating when the backyard was in greater darkness.

I am of the firm belief that the backyard of No 29 was the riskiest site for "Jack" because (unless he had had cause to go there previously) he could see nothing of what lay beyond the door and the passage.

Phil

[lynn cates]

thanks

Hello Lechmere. Thanks, you have my undying gratitude.

Yes, I own all his photographs from Colney Hatch. I think they are posted on Chris Scott's Isenschmid thread.

Yes, Toppy is VERY interesting.

Cheers.
LC

[GregBaron]

It's over....let him go

He eventually practiced in Toronto. I even searched there. Any ideas?

Not really Lynn but I think it's a valuable line of inquiry....

Not entirely true.

The Dr's view may be useful corroboration for my take on the timing of Chapman's murder, but my view isn't based on that.

I arrived at my conclusion from the times of the other murders that I believe were "Jack's" work - Nichols and Eddowes which was quite a bit earlier than 5ish; and on the lower risk to the killer of operating when the backyard was in greater darkness.

I am of the firm belief that the backyard of No 29 was the riskiest site for "Jack" because (unless he had had cause to go there previously) he could see nothing of what lay beyond the door and the passage.

Didn't mean to misrepresent your thinking Phil but I didn't think that was your sole reason...your logic is solid but we must remember this guy was crazy risky and the skill level evidenced in the Chapman massacre may lend some credence to a theory of superior lighting..........just a thought...

Of course you're correct here, Greg, because that would only get us into another situation of conflicting evidence: that of John Richardson and Dr Phillips.

Indeed Frank O. Conflicting evidence is this case, my gosh, what a novelty!

He was not released for over a year.

I guess by this time Lynn the scare was over and they thought their man "caged in an asylum" or "drowned in the Thames"....

Greg

[Phil H]

Didn't mean to misrepresent your thinking Phil

I didn't think you did, but I wanted to clarify incase I get challenged by others!

your logic is solid but we must remember this guy was crazy risky and the skill level evidenced in the Chapman massacre may lend some credence to a theory of superior lighting..........

But he appears to have managed to start a similar set of mutiliations on Nichols in a comparatively dark spot, and definitely achieved them in Mitre Square - also dark. So I see no problem. I'll have to look up the phase of the moon on the night Chapman died.

Phil

[GregBaron]

Lighting issue...

But he appears to have managed to start a similar set of mutiliations on Nichols in a comparatively dark spot, and definitely achieved them in Mitre Square - also dark. So I see no problem. I'll have to look up the phase of the moon on the night Chapman died.

Yes Phil but I think Chapman's cuts are arguably the cleanest and most skillful. Eddowes are erratic in comparison. Was it lighting, time frame, drunkeness, a different hand, who knows? Nichols may have ended up Chapman-esque with more time but we can't really say.....

But we all know it's a lot easier to do things when you can see....

Greg

[Phil H]

But we all know it's a lot easier to do things when you can see....

I wonder. In the comparative darkness - and we do not know precisely how much he could see - he may have had no alternative but to make sweeping cuts with the knife, working blind, as it were.

I know I can draw a better circle freehand on a board when I am not trying that when I am.

I wouldn't rule out accident as a reason for the (allegedly) impressive surgery.

Phil

[lynn cates]

the cracks

Hello Greg.

"I guess by this time Lynn the scare was over and they thought their man "caged in an asylum" or "drowned in the Thames"...."

I think that quite likely. To put it succinctly, my lad fell through the cracks.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

cutting remarks

Hello (again) Greg.

"I think Chapman's cuts are arguably the cleanest and most skillful. Eddowes are erratic in comparison."

Completely agree. And that's why Bagster and Baxter had doubts about Kate.

Cheers.
LC

[GregBaron]

Feeling around in the dark...

I wonder. In the comparative darkness - and we do not know precisely how much he could see - he may have had no alternative but to make sweeping cuts with the knife, working blind, as it were.

I know I can draw a better circle freehand on a board when I am not trying that when I am.

I wouldn't rule out accident as a reason for the (allegedly) impressive surgery.

Fair points Phil. I do believe drunkenness is also a possible explanation. Maybe he was a little loopier when he did Eddowes.....

Another thought occurs....weren't Chapman's few belongings neatly arranged at her feet and her cheap rings missing.........?

This also seems different than Eddowes where her things just appear to have been slung or sprung to the ground randomly......again I'm sure there are many possible explanations for this.....

Greg

[lynn cates]

practise makes perfect

Hello Phil.

"I know I can draw a better circle freehand on a board when I am not trying that when I am."

Good observation. I think "better cuts" are likely to be made IF you've had years of practice. For the wannabe, well, it just CAN'T be done.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

newspaper report

Hello Greg.

"Another thought occurs....weren't Chapman's few belongings neatly arranged at her feet and her cheap rings missing.........?

This also seems different than Eddowes where her things just appear to have been slung or sprung to the ground randomly......again I'm sure there are many possible explanations for this....."

One of which is that Kate's assailant was trying to recall the details from a newspaper report he'd read.

Cheers.
LC

[Phil H]

I think "better cuts" are likely to be made IF you've had years of practice. For the wannabe, well, it just CAN'T be done.

In general training and experience lead to better practice I agree.

But I would disagree that the same cannot be achieved by accident.

A beginner would never be able to carry out major surgery, but by accident might be able to reproduce a single cut.

An amateur artist or a child would never be able to compete with Rembrandt or Vermeer, but might be able to achieve a single slashing stroke of ink or paint that would leave a Chinese or Japanese scribe speechless with admiration.

Phil

[Rubyretro]

I have to go there to check something else (Toppy related - isn't that exciting)

That sounds ominous !! (for Me !).

[lynn cates]

agreed

Hello Phil.

"would disagree that the same cannot be achieved by accident.'

Oh, indeed. Accidents can and do happen.

"A beginner would never be able to carry out major surgery, but by accident might be able to reproduce a single cut."

Concedo. But I am struck how that, some things, done repeatedly for years with a good deal of skill, can be done almost without thinking. Beginners? Very different story.

Cheers.
LC

[GregBaron]

Artistic touch...

An amateur artist or a child would never be able to compete with Rembrandt or Vermeer, but might be able to achieve a single slashing stroke of ink or paint that would leave a Chinese or Japanese scribe speechless with admiration.

Perhaps Phil but Chapman was more than a single brushstroke..........there were several...........you can get lucky once but ............!

Also, disregarding surgical skill, Chapman appears more methodical than Eddowes..........perhaps I'm making a mountain out of a molehill.....?



Greg