Interpreting Conflicting Evidence

[lynn cates]

Hello All. I am starting a thread in order to discuss interpreting conflicting evidence. I have finished Molony’s book about the Phoenix Park murders. It is an astonishing read. Of particular interest to me is that much of the evidence survived, along with the recorded thinking of Detective Superintendent Mallon. We also know about what happened at the inquest. Here is an item from the case.

Although Mallon was almost as clever as Abberline in investigating crime, he nevertheless misinterpreted some of the evidence. One of his faux pas was very revealing and absolutely natural to make.

All but one of the witnesses stated that the getaway car with Brady and Kelly was heading west. One witness, however, claimed that the getaway car was heading east. Mallon naturally discounted the lone piece of evidence—I likely would have, in double quick time. Turns out, though, that there were two cars.

Hence, I propose that this thread be used to discuss interpreting the evidence in the “Jack the Ripper” case. I am particularly keen on posters offering an interpretation on those cases where evidence conflicts, or seems to conflict, with other evidence. I am thinking of Mrs. Maxwell’s testimony regarding “MJK” and Mrs. Long’s time disparity in the Chapman case.

I would like to hear about your favourite piece of conflicting evidence in the “Jack the Ripper” case, along with a possible interpretation of why there is a discrepancy. As we saw in the Phoenix Park case, it turned out that there was a perfectly natural explanation for it.

Cheers.
LC

[Phil H]

Interesting idea, Lynn.

As to Mrs Long, I believe she was mistaken in her identification.

To my mind, "Jack" struck MUCH earlier that morning (around the time of Nichols' death, when it was still dark. It would have been too risky in that yard, overlooked by many windows as it was, as daylight increased.

Cadoche's over heard "No!" may have been an otherwise undisclosed discovery of the body, and I believe Richardson's evidence to be flawed (there's an article among dissertations to that effect).

Phil

[lynn cates]

on the quarter

Hello Phil. Interesting ideas. I used to share all of them.

Do you think it possible that Mrs. Long heard the quarter hour struck rather than the half hour?

Cheers.
LC

[Phil H]

Whatever she heard, I don't think it relevant, I suspect Chapman was killed before 4.00 am or thereabouts.

Phil

[lynn cates]

which kind?

Hello Phil. Well, if her assailant were a shrewd, calculating chap (as "Jack" is imagined to be), I am rather certain of it.

Of course, I favour a mere lunatic for Polly and Annie.

Cheers.
LC

[Phil H]

So do, and as I understand it lunacy and cunning may not be mutually exclusive.

"Jack" had enough about him to make contact, not utterly repel the woman, and (almost certainly) be led by them to the murder scene. If so, he might well have had enough capacity to be aware of risk - and 29 Hanbury St is undoubtedly the riskiest of all sites (bar perhaps No 13 Miller's Court - and always assuming that murder was done by the same hand).

Phil

[c.d.]

I had always assumed that Jack was led to the murder scene by his victims. Maybe that is not such a safe assumption. Granted that he would be aware that they did not want any hassle with the police so he could be assured of a relatively safe environment in which to do his work. Still, to go into a situation sight unseen would be taking a chance. I would imagine that if the victims worked a certain area, they tended to take their customers to the same locations. I wonder if Jack might have followed them first and scoped out the location before committing himself at a later date. Just a thought.

c.d.

[GregBaron]

Unreliable eyewitnesses...

Hi gentlemen,

I think c.d. has a valid point. It seems all of the locales were known immoral quadrants. Jack may have been aware of these from his hunting expeditions. Not exactly safe but good for a few minutes of privacy which is apparently all he needed.

Lynn, good thread. Mrs. Long may have been mistaken as Chapman would fit the description of many middle aged unfortunates of the time. They all dressed the same. Nor would a shabby middle aged Jew be a rare sight. Perhaps she was a Hutchinson-ian publicitiy seeker? Possibilities abound but one that can’t be ruled out is that she was right! If she was, your mad butcher neatly steps into the frame.

Phil probably sides with the doctor’s TOD which is certainly the prudent choice; unfortunately, that doesn’t make it correct.

As for Mrs. Maxwell, I think she was hallucinating from too many stale porters…

Greg

[ChrisGeorge]

As for Mrs. Maxwell, I think she was hallucinating from too many stale porters…

Greg

Hi Greg

No that would be us Ripperologists who are hallucinating over too many stale porters, sweating over bad information about a case with too much poor documentary evidence.

Best regards

Chris

[c.d.]

Hi Greg,

If we follow that line of reasoning, there is the possibility that locale was the primary consideration (having been scoped out previously) and that the victim was secondary simply having the misfortune to frequent that spot.

c.d.

[lynn cates]

both

Hello CD. Perhaps a bit of both, then?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

one more

Hello Greg. She could indeed. But there was one other witness who thought "MJK" was alive early that morning.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

as memory serves

Hello Chris. Funny you should mention bad evidence. In the Molony book I just finished, Mallon had no fewer than 3 different colour descriptions of the getaway car. Turns out that there was no prevarication, no intentional misleading of the police, no ulterior motives--just multiple cases of piddly poor recall.

Simple.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

location, location, location

Hello CD. If Mitre sq were a spur of the moment thing to allay frustration (as many think), perhaps location is not always important?

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello CD. Perhaps a bit of both, then?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

Ah, there's the rub. He might have picked out a particular victim beforehand and followed her to see if he liked the locale she frequented. But attempting to compile a victim profile might be in vain if locale was his primary consideration.

P.S. I noticed in a previous post that you spelled favor "favour". Is that your Scottish background kicking in?

c.d.