The Curtis Bennett Inquiry

[David Orsam]

Hi David,

Yes, everybody but David is marching out of step.

Take it easy.

What does that even mean? Shame you couldn't simply have accepted my correction with good grace some six or seven posts back rather than respond with a glib answer like "Sorry, you’ll have to tell that to the Pinkertons".

[Simon Wood]

Hi David,

Yes, everybody but David is marching out of step.

Take it easy.

Regards,

Simon

[David Orsam]

Hi David,

Yes, I agree.

For goodness sake, please take a stress pill and lie down in a dark room before you explode in a fit of righteousness.

Yet another misreading of a text on your part if you think I need to take a stress pill or am liable to explode "in a fit of righteousness" simply because I have chosen to correct a serious factual inaccuracy in a press article you saw fit to post in this thread!

[Simon Wood]

Hi David,

Yes, I agree.

For goodness sake, please take a stress pill and lie down in a dark room before you explode in a fit of righteousness.

Regards,

Simon

[David Orsam]

Hi David,

I agree.

Maurice Moser had earlier retired from Scotland Yard’s Irish Branch to establish the Anglo-Continental Enquiry Agency.

But you don't know if he told that to the Pinkertons.

Facts don't always dictate the narrative.

I don't care what Moser might or might not have said to the Pinkertons. The story you quoted from a New York paper states:

"During July 1887, he said, Maurice Moser, a Scotland Yard detective, called on Robert Pinkerton in New York".

It doesn't say Moser claimed to be a Scotland Yard detective, or even that Pinkerton said he was a Scotland Yard detective, it just says that he was a Scotland Yard detective. That, as you agree, is factually incorrect. It's wrong.

[Simon Wood]

Hi David,

I agree.

Maurice Moser had earlier retired from Scotland Yard’s Irish Branch to establish the Anglo-Continental Enquiry Agency.

But you don't know if he told that to the Pinkertons.

Facts don't always dictate the narrative.

Regards,

Simon

[David Orsam]

Hi David,

Sorry, you'll have to tell that to the Pinkertons.

It doesn't matter who I tell it to Simon, it will still be factually wrong.

[Simon Wood]

Hi David,

Sorry, you'll have to tell that to the Pinkertons.

Regards,

Simon

[David Orsam]

During July 1887, he said, Maurice Moser, a Scotland Yard detective, called on Robert Pinkerton in New York, saying he was in search of evidence that would implicate Parnell and others in the Phoenix Park murders . . .

Wrong! Maurice Moser was not a Scotland Yard detective in July 1887. As I said earlier in this thread, he resigned from the Metropolitan Police force in January 1887.

[jerryd]

Thanks, Jerry,

The Press [New York], 8th February 1889—

“William A. Pinkerton most emphatically denies that his agency had ever been in the employ of the London Times on the Parnell case. During July 1887, he said, Maurice Moser, a Scotland Yard detective, called on Robert Pinkerton in New York, saying he was in search of evidence that would implicate Parnell and others in the Phoenix Park murders . . . He solicited the help of the agency, and Robert Pinkerton told Moser the agency would not undertake such work.

“Moser then came to Chicago, called on William Pinkerton and made some proposals, which were again refused . . . He then returned to New York and fell in with one Roberts, an alleged detective who bled him out of considerable money . . . Roberts then sold his story to a New York newspaper, which exposed Moser thoroughly. Moser was given $50 by Pinkerton to return home, having been completely ruined.”

Regards,

Simon

Thank you, Simon,

I know Jackson was a fictitious name made up by the World reporter. Must have been this Roberts guy, you mention.

Any chance H.L. Walters (Moser) returned to England and became Charles Legrand's sidekick known as, J.H. Batchelor? Legrand claimed to have known/worked for Soames and we know Moser actually did work for Soames.

[Simon Wood]

Thanks, Jerry,

The Press [New York], 8th February 1889—

“William A. Pinkerton most emphatically denies that his agency had ever been in the employ of the London Times on the Parnell case. During July 1887, he said, Maurice Moser, a Scotland Yard detective, called on Robert Pinkerton in New York, saying he was in search of evidence that would implicate Parnell and others in the Phoenix Park murders . . . He solicited the help of the agency, and Robert Pinkerton told Moser the agency would not undertake such work.

“Moser then came to Chicago, called on William Pinkerton and made some proposals, which were again refused . . . He then returned to New York and fell in with one Roberts, an alleged detective who bled him out of considerable money . . . Roberts then sold his story to a New York newspaper, which exposed Moser thoroughly. Moser was given $50 by Pinkerton to return home, having been completely ruined.”

Regards,

Simon

[Mayerling]

Various reasons Jeff.

1. He lost £900 in trust money that he had placed with a stockbroker in 1883 when the stockbroker went under.

Interesting about that large failure in 1883. Except that you said it was a stockbroker firm, it sounds like something I heard connected to someone else about that time. But I may be wrong.

Sir Arthur Sullivan lost most of his savings in a bank collapse in 1882 I believe - it was about the time he and Gilbert put on their latest collaboration, "Iolanthe". The firm involved was "Cooper, Hall, and Co." "Iolanthe's success helped restore Sullivan's financial situation.

Of course bank and stockbrokerage failures were (and somewhat still are) frequent (think back to 2008 in the U.S.), so there may be no connection at all, but I wonder if there was.

Jeff

[David Orsam]

Evidence about Moser's visit to US

From the Times of 15 February 1889:

Joseph Soames, solicitor for the Times at the Parnell Commission Inquiry being questioned by the Attorney General (for the Times):

Q. In the summer of 1887 did you send Mr Moser to America? A. I did.

Q. Was that with reference to certain documents you believed to be in existence? A. It was, that I knew to be in existence.

Q. Did Mr Moser send over to you certain papers? – A. Subsequently.

Q. Before they arrived did he send to you a communication? He sent originally two. I think his communication came subsequently.

Q. Did he send a communication with reference to the documents before you had replied to him? No, I replied to him by cable.

Later (under cross-x by Sir Charles Russell) he says Moser was paid a thousand pounds.

Being questioned by Sir Charles Russell (for Parnell):

Q. When you received those documents did you form any opinion about them? A. I knew they were fraudulent.

Q Did Moser also make the same communication to you as to their being fraudulent? A He obtained the documents in two batches. Two first, more subsequently. He sent me a cablegram directly to tell me they were fraudulent.

QYou formed your own opinion on the view of them that they were fraudulent A. I did.

Q. Did you ever make use of them? A. Never.

[jerryd]

Hi David,

Nice work. Thank you.

"Moser . . . did not, in my opinion, give as open and candid a statement as [he] might have done."

This story keeps getting better and better.

Fancy Wontner & Sons, solicitors to the Metropolitan Police, the Home Office and the Treasury, employing Maurice Moser, of all people, to investigate possible corruption at the Receiver's Office. He had recently returned from America, where he was snapping up evidence on behalf of The Times.

Parnell Commission, Fiftieth Day [14th February 1889]—

“All payments in connection with this investigation passed through Mr. Soames’s [the Times' solicitor] hands . . . A detective named Moser received between one and two thousand pounds for his services in America.”

Regards,

Simon

Hi Simon,

According to the, Boston Sunday Globe, September 11,1887, Moser was in New York on behalf of the London Times to procure letters from the Invinsibles, Tynan and Sheridan, and from Rossa and Short that would implicate Parnell and Dillon in the Phoenix Park murders and the dynamite outrages which had been perpetrated in England.

"About July 20 Walters told Jackson that he had succeeded in locating Tynan, or "Number 1", at 17 Silver Place, Washington Heights, and that he knew him well, as he had shadowed him after the Phoenix Park murders through London to Paris and over the European Continent. He desired Jackson to meet Tynan and have a talk with him about the letters in his possession, and to ascertain for what sum of money he would part with them."

"Jackson was to carefully conceal the purpose for which the letters were to be used, and to tell Tynan that he represented a confidential agent of Mr. Parnell, who desired to get in his possession any letter which Tynan, Sheridan, Rossa or Short might have coming from Quinn, Healy or Dillon."


Initially, Tynan agreed to $500 for the letters. To make a long story short, Moser requested wires for $1500 and $1700 from London (which were in fact wired to him in belief that was the asking price for the letters from Tynan) but only paid $1,000 to Tynan for the letters. The remainder was to be split between Moser and Jackson.

If that isn't good enough, a New York World reporter decided to shadow Walters (Moser) and Jackson after this transaction and found they were paying visits to Inspector Byrnes two or three times subsequently in his office. When questioned in regard to the visits, Inspector Byrnes declined to comment.

"The World man had learned all he wanted to know at the time. Inspector Byrnes, however, owes it to the public to explain the visits of Moser and Jackson to his office and what took place there. If it was in reference to money, the public will be interested, and if in reference to the forged letters will be still more concerned."

[Robert]

Thanks for that, David. Evans comes out of it quite well.