Did Anderson Know

[DVV]

But I really dont believe for one moment that Robert Anderson was part of any conspiracy to hide the identity of the Ripper.That,in my view is just nonsense.

Norma

Hi Norma,

and significantly, Swanson never bothered to publicly support Anderson's views.

Amitiés,
David

[Natalie Severn]

Hi Norma,

and significantly, Swanson never bothered to publicly support Anderson's views.

Amitiés,
David

Thanks David, yes,and thats clearly of importance!

Best
Norma

[robhouse]

"But I really dont believe for one moment that Robert Anderson was part of any conspiracy to hide the identity of the Ripper.That,in my view is just nonsense."

So Natalie, I ask you to think about the following:

Let's say, just for argument's sake, that Anderson (or any of the higher up police officials involved in the case) DID believe they knew the identity of the Ripper BUT couldn't convict him, for whatever reason. (This is basically what Anderson claimed) In other words, the same scenario in the Green River case prior to uncovering the DNA evidence... Several detectives in the Green River Task force strongly believed that Ridgeway either was the GRK or at least that he was a very, very strong suspect, but they lacked sufficient evidence to convict.

If this was the situation in the Ripper inquiry, what do you think the "head officers of CID" would have done about it?

1. Who, if anyone, would they have told?
2. Would they have publicized the fact that they strongly suspected a particular man? I.e. would they have told the press, etc?
3. Would they have allowed their files on this suspect (files on the identification, etc) to be accessible to lower echelon members of the police force, and/or to the public?

If you answered in the affirmative to any of these questions, then what do you think would have been the public response? What do you think the Police think would have happened if the name of this suspect became general knowledge?

RH

[Simon Wood]

Hi Rob,

If I may try to answer your question to Natalie—

"Let's say, just for argument's sake, that Anderson (or any of the higher up police officials involved in the case) DID believe they knew the identity of the Ripper BUT couldn't convict him, for whatever reason . . . what do you think the "head officers of CID" would have done about it?"

Before deciding how to proceed with the case they would first have agreed on the suspect.

Regards,

Simon

[DVV]

Hi Rob,

one problem I see here, is that if there were suspicions on Kosminski (or any other low-class Jew of the district), these suspicions necessarily came first from local knowledge, ie, from constables, or sergeants, detectives, etc, from Whitechapel.
No senior police officers cover-up possible.

Amitiés,
David

[The Good Michael]

We are back to the only options, which are:

1. Anderson thought he knew
2. Anderson lied

The idea of Anderson lying opens up far more possibilities for conspiracy theories, and improbable ones, than an idea of a few police officials thinking they knew, but unsure and without physical proof, being unable to even attempt to seek a conviction. People can argue back and forth all they want about Anderson's "knowledge", but if one accepts the possibility that Anderson just lied, the doors are open to bizarre conspiracies involving Fenians, immigrant Jews, Elves and Hobbits. That seems to be what is wanted by certain daydreamers.

Cheers,

Mike

[Simon Wood]

Hi Mike,

If one accepts the possibility that Anderson lied, then the doors are open to us standing a better chance of discovering the truth. It's the stubborn refusal to explore this possibility which is keeping us in the dark.

And just for the record I have no problem with immigrant Hobbits.

Regards,

Simon

[Sox]

I do not think he knew, I think he had an opinion that he then embellished for the public domain. If Anderson's 'Polish Jew' is indeed identified in 1890 then why leave everyone else in the Police force in the dark, only closing the case in 1891?

''there was no doubt whatever as to the identity of the criminal''

"In saying that he was a Polish Jew I am merely stating a definitely ascertained fact."

If Anderson did indeed say these things then, given that none of the officers involved in the case could even agree on the main suspect, are these statements not lies? And logic dictates that if this is so then...Anderson was a liar by default.

His statements are riddled with bravado, and you all know the inconsistencies between Anderson's comments and Swansons alleged notes.

''But it is enough to say that the wretched victims belonged to a very small class of degraded women who frequent the East End streets after midnight, in hope of inveigling belated drunkards, or men as degraded as themselves.''

Written by a man supposedly with his finger on the pulse of the investigation....I think not. Every single one of you knows that this paragraph bears little relation to the East End of 1888. His statements are just riddled with holes.

It is all nonesense isn't it? identifying someone seen with one of the victims is a million miles away from identifying the killer, even if all you do want to do is stick him in an asylum!

I have no doubt Kosminski was a suspect, no argument there. But having read Anderson's numerous comments about the case, I really would not like to bet, even a small amount of money, that he had any idea who Jack the Ripper was.

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi Rob,

one problem I see here, is that if there were suspicions on Kosminski (or any other low-class Jew of the district), these suspicions necessarily came first from local knowledge, ie, from constables, or sergeants, detectives, etc, from Whitechapel.
No senior police officers cover-up possible.

Amitiés,
David

Not if Aaron's sister was introduced directly to Anderson via Carnarvon.

Pirate

[The Good Michael]

I have no doubt Kosminski was a suspect, no argument there. But having read Anderson's numerous comments about the case, I really would not like to bet, even a small amount of money, that he had any idea who Jack the Ripper was.

Okay, then he thought he knew, even if it was after a period of time. That is still completely different than making up a lie to cover up something nefarious; some sort of conspiracy. That is what is being debated here. He knew, in my opinion, but he may have been wrong.

Cheers,

Mike

[DVV]

He knew, in my opinion, but he may have been wrong.
Mike

Hi Mike,

in other terms, he didn't know he was wrong.

Amitiés,
David

[Simon Wood]

Nicely bowled, David. Trying to defend the indefensible really is a lost cause.

[Phil Carter]

....His statements are riddled with bravado, and you all know the inconsistencies between Anderson's comments and Swansons alleged notes.....

....[I]''But it is enough to say that the wretched victims belonged to a very small class of degraded women.....

....Written by a man supposedly with his finger on the pulse of the investigation....I think not. Every single one of you knows that this paragraph bears little relation to the East End of 1888. His statements are just riddled with holes.....

....It is all nonesense isn't it? identifying someone seen with one of the victims is a million miles away from identifying the killer, even if all you do want to do is stick him in an asylum!....

....I have no doubt Kosminski was a suspect, no argument there. But having read Anderson's numerous comments about the case,

....

Hello Sox,

I can only but agree wholeheartedly. It is called DISinformation. And the police only use DISinformation...when?

I think the whole thing is a smokescreen. And an extremely badly worked out one at that! Anderson made several glaring comments that wouldn't stand up with a supporting frame, let alone as "def ascertained fact"..

It is my sincere belief that Anderson needed to convince, to make sure the boiling kettle was kept under HIS control...and part of the convincing was because the Druitt idea and the Ostrog idea were no hopers from the start. He was probably telling not just the general public, but serving and retired bobbies on the beat that we caught the bugger, and locked him up in an asylum to

1) boost his own importance and ego
2) convince the world that the police forces in London had everything under control
3) deflect from why the police were REALLY on mass in Whitechapel. The thing that gives it all away is the almost immediate pulling out of policemen in the area following the Kelly murder,
and the immediate, "he died in the Thames" rubbish.

Nope, I see only one thing. A smokescreen. And Anderson was pulling the strings. With his "I'm in charge of the WM case" hat on, and his "I'm in charge of the SD" hat on, he had it sown up.

Consider this. The RIC (Royal Irish Constabulary) were brought over to assist in the Whitechapel murder case. That was reported in the Irish newspapers on Oct 9th. Now why in heavens name would the RIC be brought all the way from DUBLIN to assist in a Whitechapel murder inquiry?

Please everyone, don't tell me "you can't always believe everything you read in newspapers".. it doesn't wash 100 times over.

Err... it seems pretty obvious to me. The police, with their house to house searching, were NOT after identifying Jack the Ripper. They were after someone, or some people, connected to Fenianism. The whole area was FLOODED with Fenian busting policemen! It was a smokescreen!

Complete twaddle is the idea that Kosminski was Jack the Ripper... it is STILL being seriously discussed.... with not an OUNCE of FACTUAL evidence.. and that remains mysteriously consistent.... but THIS writer, and many more, are seeing the holes as clear as daylight. Some refuse to bend on this subject because it ruins the status quo of the JTR subject. Shame. A new generation is here. And we won't refuse to bow down and cow-to.

Not everyone swallows the rubbish put before us any more. Why? Because nothing, in 121 years, has been seen to be an answer. So Anderson's "More Holy than thou" image should be put exactly where it deserves to be put, and should have been put years ago.... In the bin. Filed away under disinformation, lies and unsubstantiated false statements.

All IMHO, that is.

with best wishes

Phil

[Natalie Severn]

Rob,
Thanks for your reply and those pesky questions you ask!But I think to get an answer to the questions you ask in your above post I think I have to refer you back to Stewart Evans,Stewart being not only an ex-policeman but a supreme authority on the Ripper Investigation.


Phil,
Thanks for your post and thanks especially for asking that intriguing question about why the Royal Ulster Constabulary were brought over supposedly to help with the ripper investigation as early as October 9th.Are you sure it was that early? How do you know this Phil-----if you dont mind my asking-ofcourse?
Perhaps it was just a coincidence and they arrived because they needed to provide information connected to the imminent "Special Commission" on Parnell .
Robert Anderson may also have called upon them to assist him in matters concerning Ireland and the soon to be happening ,"Special Commission" inquiring into the slurs on Parnell.To be frank Robert Anderson had been spreading not just slurs but a lot more besides ,about the Irish MP Charles Parnell.The slurs and lies that he later confessed to in 1910 took the form of a series of articles in The Times Newspaper in 1887,all written by Robert Anderson and published alongside the forgery letters of Richard Pigott .Dont forget Pigott had writtenthese,pretending to be Parnell and the letters suggested a bogus complicity in the Phoenix Murders of English Government figures in 1882. Now this most definitely greatly concerned all those involved -starting with fear of ruinous costs to The Times Newspaper who had so "innocently" published the forgeries [not suspecting they were forgeries-seriously[?]and in similar "good faith" the series of defamatory articles by Sir Robert Anderson.
The Special Commission started its investigations on 22 October1888 and poor Robert was probably changing his underpants by the minute!

Anyway,you know all this but all I am saying is that the RUC men had been Sir Robert"s close colleagues when he worked with them in Dublin Castle and I suspect he needed them badly for any information they could provide on links Parnell may have had to the Irish Republicans---even if such links only expressed sympathy with their common aim for an Ireland independent from mainland Britain.

Best


Norma

[Simon Wood]

[London] Evening News, 9th October 1888—

DETECTIVES REINFORCED FROM DUBLIN.
The correspondent of the Irish Times states that a number of Irish constables have been withdrawn from Dublin for special duty in connection with the Whitechapel murders.