Did Anderson Know

[Natalie Severn]

OK look (and I'm really getting tired of this uninformed discussion)

Anderson's posthumous quote "The necessary evidence for his conviction is unobtainable." (Daily Telegraph, 19 November 1918).

I am getting tired of it too.Anderson would say that.Anderson was supremely adept at every kind of deception having spent his entire working life as a spy master and being a pastmaster at disinformation.
Henry Smith who at the time of the murders was "acting" City Chief Commissioner of Police and soon after became the City Chief Commissioner of Police and actually went to Mitre Square soon after Kate Eddowes"s body was found there and while Anderson was nowhere to be found having taken leave throughout all but Mary Kelly"s murder, said the ripper had them all completely beat and nobody knew who he was or where he lived even after twenty years.His own autobiography came out in 1910,just after Anderson"s and he states how appalled he is by Anderson"s bogus claims.

[Jeff Leahy]

The same claims apparently supported by Swanson in the Marginalia?

or are we all going back to the earth is FLAT and the marginalia is possibly fake school of thought

[Natalie Severn]

No----just going back to that phase in Anderson"s life when he was concurrently claiming a hotline to the Almighty and "insider" knowledge on Christ"s Second Coming.

[Jeff Leahy]

Which on its own might be a reasonable argument, if you could substantiate that Anderson had lost it, was going senile or losing his marbles (But there’s no hard evidence for this) However Andersons claim appears to be independently corroborated by SWANSON.

Are you suggesting he also was losing his marbles? Because again I see no evidence. Indeed the exact opposite. A man well in control of his mental facilities.

It’s the ‘Marginalia’ and ‘the lighter side of my official life’ taken together that is the really interesting Elephant in the room when it comes to this case.

Pirate

[celee]

The same claims apparently supported by Swanson in the Marginalia?

or are we all going back to the earth is FLAT and the marginalia is possibly fake school of thought

True that, come on, Swanson seems to back up Anderson. He even gives us a name Kosminski. Swanson's remarks seem to be backed up by Macnaughten who names Kosminski in his memo. Littlechild claims Anderson only thought he knew. Littlechild's remarks seem to back up the whole shooting match.

Why is it so hard to believe that Anderson thought he knew the identity of Jack the Ripper. Anderson obviously had a witness that he believed.

Your friend, Brad

[jason_c]

No----just going back to that phase in Anderson"s life when he was concurrently claiming a hotline to the Almighty and "insider" knowledge on Christ"s Second Coming.

Are we now dismissing anyone who has deep or idiosyncratic religious beliefs?

[Natalie Severn]

True that, come on, Swanson seems to back up Anderson. He even gives us a name Kosminski. Swanson's remarks seem to be backed up by Macnaughten who names Kosminski in his memo. Littlechild claims Anderson only thought he knew. Littlechild's remarks seem to back up the whole shooting match.

Why is it so hard to believe that Anderson thought he knew the identity of Jack the Ripper. Anderson obviously had a witness that he believed.

Your friend, Brad

My view is that Anderson may have convinced himself/deluded himself that he knew the ripper"s identity and may have managed to get Swanson on side and get Macnaghten in the adjacent office -a little bit interested-though it didnt alter his own view that Druitt was the Ripper! Such nonsense.Both Kosminski and Druitt are such a no no-----Kosminski a harmless demented soul, Druitt a depressed batchelor.But anyway, too many highly placed police officers roundly dismissed such claims, starting with Abberline and the Chief Commissioner of City Police ,Henry Smith----who is so "conveniently" dismissed himself by those who support Anderson and co.All the other policemen thought such a claim by Anderson was absolute nonsense---in Abberline"s case, and worse than that by Smith.

[perrymason]

Hi all,

I believe the only conclusion that can be made about the authorities "knowledge" of the Rippers identity is that there was none. And that includes Anderson's. Ego and Phrasing and even antisemitism can sometimes be the issue with these quotes and sources I feel....and regardless of how absolute the opinion seems, it can ONLY be one based on conjecture of some kind or non-verified information. Officially, none of the Ripper cases were solved, nor do any have named suspects attached. So, that sort of takes care of the "verifications" that are available to authenticate such a statement .....

I am beginning to understand what that may have meant to these chaps....having zero clues.....because it was obvious that the best and brightest of them were brought into the mix. So its not like one of the local beat fellas must have dropped the ball.,.......Jack slipped by all of them ...when they were supposed to be, and supposedly, watching.

Best regards all.

[Scott Nelson]

I am getting tired of it too.

Well thank you, Mrs. Buddle. Here's another couple of gems to digest:

MJK's pubic hair may have been removed as a separate act. Steven G. Ryan's contention ( I brought it up a couple of years ago in response to his Ripperana article and was roundly lambasted -- even though it was Mr. Ryan's speculation, not mine.) And anyone who's the least bit interested -- re-read Bond's autopsy report and tell me that there's no way that you could conclusively state otherwise -- it's just not specific enough. If so, you're a better reader than me. Ryan also had access to Dr. Hebbert's extensive notes and knows (or knew) his grandson.

And the other jem: that Anderson's witness was either (or both) Jospeh H. Levy and Aaron Kosminski. I thought initially it was Aaron, then I settled on Levy. Now I'm back to Aaron.

Aw, never mind, screw it all.

[Jeff Leahy]

Kosminski a harmless demented soul, .

A little like Peter Sutcliff?

Pirate

[Johnr]

They ALL thought they knew....

I would find it a fascinating exercise to discuss the contrast in personalities between the two deeply committed Christian Police chiefs: James Munro and Sir Robert Anderson.
I note that Munro never publicly claimed to know who JTR was.
I think his family kept some of his notes which might have dealt with that subject (quoted in Howells & Skinner's The Ripper Legacy?).
Perhaps Sir Robert Anderson adopted some kind of mental reservation as a device to excuse the failure to capture JTR on his watch.
After all, he was a lawyer by training.
If his chosen JTR suspect was insane and caged in an asylum; - he (Anderson), was there provided with a perfect legal reason why he could not prosecute a JTR suspect.
And by not bringing JTR to court,and not having a fair trial, JTR could not be subject to a jury's verdict; and a presiding judge's sentence.Not found guilty.
So, this would explain why Anderson never publicly named his chief suspect.
Come to think of it, this reasoning would explain why Macnaghten and Swanson also forebore from public naming.
Curious that Anderson, who was absent most of the time, was the most vocal with his suspicions.
Macnaghten at least used ventriloquists dummies like Sims and Griffith to bruit his theories.
This has been a most productive thread and I join others in thanking Stewart and Martin (plus everyone else of course).
I'd hate to play poker against Stewart.
JOHN RUFFELS.

[Natalie Severn]

A little like Peter Sutcliff?

Pirate

Dont be ridiculous.We have sufficient access to Aaron Kosminski"s medical notes to know the following:


Doctors and medical staff reported from his very first entry into Colney Hatch,throughout his ENTIRE THIRTY YEAR STAY in those two institutions for the mentally ill,viz. Colney Hatch and Leavesdon, that Aaron Kosminski was NOT DANGEROUS.
I know suffient about such places to know that had they had an inkling he was the Whitechapel murderer,they would not have written that----and indeed he would have been transferred to an institution such as Broadmoor,where Thomas Cutbush was incarcerated for life and was precisely for the criminally and dangerously insane such as Thomas was certified to be[-having allegedly made random knife attacks on women in the street].
Both Colney Hatch and Leavesdon were for the non-dangerous "imbeciles" as such mentally ill people like Kosminski were labelled.

Kosminski bore no relationship whatsoever to Peter Sutcliffe.He was a man who could not care for himself ,suffered from hallucinations,but was termed HARMLESS.

Norma

[Natalie Severn]

John,
If I may say so your post is very perceptive and well thought through.I hadnt thought of that myself----that since both Macnaghten"s and Anderson"s suspects were understood by them to be mentally ill ,they wouldnt have been able to stand trial---therefore naming them would have been remiss of them.
Thankyou for that,
Norma

[Natalie Severn]

Scott,
I am really interested in knowing more about the possibility that Aaron Kosminski could have been Anderson"s "witness".I have often thought that he must have been wandering about Aldgate and Duke Street late at night,and the police became rather suspicious of his "interests"-specially with him not being quite right in the head.Possibly Anderson did try to "interview" him in the bin or even took him to the police rest home........but to identify which Jewish suspect there?

Regarding Mary"s injuries what you have stated doesnt surprise me and it tallies slightly with what was discovered regarding one of the Torso victims.


Best


Norma

[robhouse]

Natalie,

Can you please stick to the facts. First of all, as I have posted before, in reply to one of your posts I believe... we do not have Kozminski's records "throughout his ENTIRE THIRTY YEAR STAY." We have his Colney Hatch records from 1891-4, then nothing for 16 years, then his Leavesden records from 1910-19. In other words, we have 13 years of records... less than half.

Secondly, Colney Hatch was not an asylum for imbeciles. Thirdly you obviously know nothing about the Victorian medical or legal usage of the term imbecile, nor about the criteria for entry into an "Imbeciles" asylum. The term had a different connotation from the modern one. And in any case, Aaron was not an imbecile, as is clearly noted on his certification, admission order, and the 1901 census.

Thirdly, although Aaron's admission to Colney Hatch claims he was not violent, this was almost certainly simply communicated to Mile End or Colney Hatch officials by Kozminski's family. And there are at least two cited instances of Aaron being violent.

The next time I hear this "harmless imbecile" phrase I am going to throw up.

Rob H