How Are The Mighty Fallen

[Trevor Marriott]

Or, as with Druitt and the Tory MP, information about Kosminski bypassed all other police except for Macnaghten, Anderson and Swanson. If that information was about a suspect too late to officially investigate [eg. 'safely caged'] then it makes sense that no other police would know of his existence.

So they kept the information all to themselves never wrote anyhting down at the time as to where this info came from or who provided, never told anyone, just their little secret. I dont think so.

A major case such as the ripper and the only persons who appear to have any made any inroads into the enquiry are all senior officers who all seem to have obtained these vital pieces of info without anyone else within the goverment or the police having any knowledge of it at the time or therafter.

[Jonathan H]

Roy,

Certainly ythe undated Crawford Letter might be by a Kosminski, or near relative.

I think probably not as I subscribe to the theory that Kosmisnki coming into the frame in a major way post-dates his Feb 1891 incarceration.

So why bring such dangerous attention to the family then?

Also, it would mean a very, very bitter Anderson who converted a family member who was trying to be candid into 'certain' low-class Polish Jews who were hiding their member from Gentile Justice.

My conjecture is that Macnaghten found [an already incarcerated] Kosminski from the house to house list, which he reinvestigated in 1891. I think that he did checked out this list to prove that the Ripper was Druitt, and not anybody else -- not a local, foriegn, Jew. Mac thought, rightly or wrongly, that the Kosminski family's fears, or a member's fears, about Aaron were sincere but unfounded -- unlike the Druitts.

To Macnaghten's consternation, Anderson -- rightly or wrongly -- fastened onto this nothing suspect for the rest of his life, thus beginning, from 1895, this weird chief-suspect feud between the two police chiefs.

I think Anderson partly did this to muddy the waters, to forever deny Macnaghten the credit of finding the Ripper -- albeit posthumously.

[Roy Corduroy]

Which brings us, Jonathan, back to Crawford's letter to Anderson.

Because the family was local, the name Kosminski was in police notebooks from the inquiries in the area. I think we could safely say that. If Anderson received a plea from Kosminski's sister at some point, was there cross-checking done? I don't see why not.

To me, the probing of Anderson, the way Stewart has demonstrated a timeline of how Anderson's own words coalesced into the "definite fact" in his memoir, all this is good material and greatly appreciated. It's not gonna knock Aaron Kosminski out of the box. As a suspect. But it adds depth to our understanding.

Roy

[Jonathan H]

Or, as with Druitt and the Tory MP, information about Kosminski bypassed all other police except for Macnaghten, Anderson and Swanson. If that information was about a suspect too late to officially investigate [eg. 'safely caged'] then it makes sense that no other police would know of his existence.

[Scott Nelson]

Oh good. I'm glad I know now. It's so nice to be set straight every now and then.

I wonder if I should buy your book?

No, maybe not.

[Trevor Marriott]

I have gone to great lengths to point out that anything Anderson or swanson wrote must have come from an un corroborated source as i have previoulsy mentioned. It may have come from one or more of the many officers involved in the case. It is a fact that rank and file officers talk and discuss cases with each other.

Do you not think that it is strange that no one else connected to The Ripper investigation has subsequently spoken out save for senior officers all wanting to sell their memoirs, and there is no documentation to support either swanson or Anderson, and Abberline for that matter

Then we have good old Major Smith saying in his memoirs no one had a clue as to the identity of The Ripper. He is the only one its safe to beleive

[Phil Carter]

Hi All,

Regarding the memo from Sir Kenelm Edward Digby [Permanent Under Secretary of State, Home Office] to Charles Thomson Ritchie [Home Secretary], 22nd May 1901—

The memo is held at the National Archives, filed under—

P.R.O., H.O. 144/588/B5005, "Resignation of Mr. Anderson – Memo setting forth circs of case & authorising the payment of a gratuity of £1,000."

Hello Simon,

Thank you for posting this.

best wishes

Phil

[Jonathan H]

A counter-argument to the previous posts is that Anderson seems to have had one chief suspect from about 1895 [according to Griffiths] until, presumably, his death.

This particular Polish Jew suspect is seemingly backed up by Swanson, who named him, the same name, 'Kosminski', as mentioned in a confidential police document by Anderson's deputy.

To lumber Anderson [and Swanson] with Macnaghten's toing and froing between three 'unlikely' suspects -- and then his elevation of the one who was the class-race-nationality opposite of Kosminski -- is arguably unfair.

[Trevor Marriott]

Dear Trevor,

As a fan of the Anderson / Polish Jew theory, it pains me to say that your last post seems to make a lot of sense. Perhaps we should regard Abberline's theories on Klosovski in a similar light i.e. old hands clutching at straws in order to claim that they had solved the mystery after all.

Bloody Hell.

Best regards,

Steve.

You are totally correct

[Steven Russell]

I meant no. 607.

Regards,

Steve.

[Steven Russell]

Trevor Marriott

Dear Trevor,

As a fan of the Anderson / Polish Jew theory, it pains me to say that your last post seems to make a lot of sense. Perhaps we should regard Abberline's theories on Klosovski in a similar light i.e. old hands clutching at straws in order to claim that they had solved the mystery after all.

Bloody Hell.

Best regards,

Steve.

[Trevor Marriott]

Surely there had to be more to the elevation of Kosminski as a suspect than the possible fact that his name was the last one added to a suspect list?

Well you tell me as I said why was Ostrogg named as a suspect no difference there he was named by a senior officer. Kosminski the same. No corroboration in either case. Anderson nor Swanson did any investigitve work themselves so they had to have obtained the info from somewhere or someone.,and there is nothing written to suggest where or when or from whom and in what context the info was provided. So it has to be questionable and not to be relied on

I know there are people on here who desparately want to belive Kosminski was the Ripper but there is no hard evidence. The writings of Swanson,Anderson, and Abberline cannot be treated as evidence.

[Scott Nelson]

Surely there had to be more to the elevation of Kosminski as a suspect than the possible fact that his name was the last one added to a suspect list?

[Trevor Marriott]

I think this whole Kosminski affair has perhaps been taken out of context as far as what Anderson and Swanson wrote.

Let me quote scenario based on what we know about Kosminski and Anderson and Swansons later writings.

During the series of murders the police received many hoax letters and i have no doubt that some other letters they received were from public spirited persons who genuinley believed they knew the identity of the Ripper. Likewise perhaps many officers during the course of their patrols were also stopped by the public and given details of likely suspects, as is still the case today.

In 1888 the police would have no doubt had a basic intelligence system so any information would have been collated somewhere. In fact I would suggest the content of Macs memo was compiled from such a system and not just the Ripper file, hence Ostroggs name appearing when clearly he was a non starter.

It could have been quiet possible for Kosminskis name to have been put forward at a point before his arrest, and then following his arrest he would have been flagged up yet again and catergorised as a suspect in the same way that Ostrog was despite Kosminski ever being the Ripper. Although having regard to his mental capacity and the later incident invloving a knife, and by the time he came to notice for that the Ripper case had gone cold, so any new addittions to the suspect list would be greeted with open arms by the police. He was probably the last name ever put on the list. Easy for Anderson and swanson to remember for their later writings.

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

Regarding the memo from Sir Kenelm Edward Digby [Permanent Under Secretary of State, Home Office] to Charles Thomson Ritchie [Home Secretary], 22nd May 1901—

"About three months ago you requested Mr. Anderson to send in his resignation as Assistant Commissioner of Metropolitan Police. You were led to take this step in consequence of the necessity which in your view had arisen for alteration in the staff and organization of the Metropolitan Police, which made it desirable for a new appointment to be made to the post held by Mr. Anderson. You were particularly conscious that a fresh appointment should be made to the leadership of the Criminal Investigation Department, of a person who should serve for a considerable time under Sir Edward Bradford . . ."

The memo is held at the National Archives, filed under—

P.R.O., H.O. 144/588/B5005, "Resignation of Mr. Anderson – Memo setting forth circs of case & authorising the payment of a gratuity of £1,000."

Regards,

Simon