Anderson in NY Times, March 20, 1910

[robhouse]

If the police suspected Kozminski of being the Ripper, but didnt have sufficient evidence to prove it, then he would NOT have been put into Broadmoor. As far as I understand it, Broadmoor was for insane criminals... in other words, people who were proved to be criminals but determined to be insane. The asylum was “intended for the reception, safe custody and treatment of persons who had committed crimes while actually insane.”

Cutbush I believe was known to be a criminal. Kozminski was apparently suspected, but there was insufficient proof.

“The author of those murders [i.e. the Whitechapel murders] was a lunatic, and if evidence had been available to bring him to justice he would have been sent to Broadmoor." Anderson, 1908.

RH

[Roy Corduroy]

Make that the Edwardian period. As noted on this thread, and in the 2005 Ripper Notes examination of the article, the timing of commital at "His Majesty's Pleasure" presents a problem. Things start to unravel.

I guess my point is this - without researching it, we don't know who all was at Broadmoor in the years after the murders, do we?

Roy

[Roy Corduroy]

Just a Thought

I've not heard of research of whether there were any Jewish men at Broadmoor at this time. Maybe it happened and I missed it.

Thanks to Martin Fido, we know the institutional history of Kosminski and Cohen. We know Kelly's thanks to James Tully. Now that the Broadmoor archives are available, it might behoove a researcher to determine if any Jews were there in the Later Victorian period of history.

Roy

[Natalie Severn]

If you read up on the care the family took over Aaron"s burial you will see it to have been in line with Jewish traditions.The family brought Aaron"s body back from Leavesdon and then everything was managed according to Jewish tradition by a Jewish burial parlour in Aldgate.

[Jeff Leahy]

Mistaken post please delete

Pirate,
think of these words in the song by L. Cohen, ".....or the homicidal bitchin that goes on in every kitchen"
How provoked was Aaron in this very traditional Jewish household-which we know it was?Was he forever being got at for not "conforming"?

Well they cearly were not orthadox. What do you mean by traditional exactly?

Also you are now touching into the nature nurture debate on Schizophrenia, I will see if I can dig up some stuff on genetics.

Pirate

[Simon Wood]

Hi Scott,

James Kelly played violin in the Broadmoor Patients Orchestra.

Regards,

Simon

[Natalie Severn]

Pirate,
think of these words in the song by L. Cohen, ".....or the homicidal bitchin that goes on in every kitchen"
How provoked was Aaron in this very traditional Jewish household-which we know it was?Was he forever being got at for not "conforming"?

[Scott Nelson]

Didn't they have a patient's orchestra at Broadmoor as well? None at the Hatch, as far as I know.

[Natalie Severn]

Actually Cap"n, Colney Hatch was very well stocked with state of the art work and recreational equipment as well as a well trained staff.It was one of the most progressive institutions for the mentally ill in the UK.But Aaron"s problem was that he was work shy!

You are though quite right regarding Thomas Cutbush being sent straight to Broadmoor.Why not Colney Hatch?

[Cap'n Jack]

The progression of a lunatic is the progression of a lunatic, it follows that dint of progress that a maturing lunatic would spend time in Colney Hatch before he finally docked at Broadmoor, that is the natural progression of lunacy.
However it must be said that a lunatic who was sectioned to Broadmoor at Her Majesty's Pleasure was deemed to be a danger to the public and Realm, whilst someone confined to Colney Hatch was perhaps only a danger to himself.
This is rare distinction, and should be acted upon in our thoughts and submissions here.
One could hop over the wall at Colney Hatch, but one would need more than a hop at Broadmoor.
Finally they had a billiards room at Broadmoor, whilst at Colney Hatch they had none, this gave the lunatics the opportunity to fiddle with someone else's balls rather than their own.
I rest me case.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Jeff,

Exactly who seriously suspected Cutbush of being the Ripper?

Qu'Appelle Progress [Saskatchewan, Canada] 29th March 1894—

"The police who have been interested in the Whitechapel murder cases are not disposed to give much credit to the Sun's story, which is generally regarded as sensational, and open to grave suspicions as to its veracity.

"One of the most unbelievable ideas put forward in the series of Sun newspaper articles is that Doctor Nicholson was not aware—until the arrival of the Sun's intrepid reporters—that one of his charges was 'Jack the Ripper'.

"The mention of the name of the one man above all others in whom the representatives of The Sun were interested caused the production of a large brown envelope, which contained the whole of the documents relative to the case for which he was incarcerated in Broadmoor. In these there was naturally no mention of his supposed connection with the Whitechapel crimes, and Dr. Nicholson was absolutely astonished, not to say incredulous, when informed as to the identity of the wretched lunatic in whom he had previously taken no more than an official interest."

Regards,

Simon

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi Norma.

Aaron is clearly mentioned as practicing solitary vices and as I have demonstrated there are links between hormonal imbalance and Schizophrenia. But as I said my expert would expect lower than usual sex drive once imprisoned. What we can’t know is what external influences would have been a contributing factor, be that drugs or alcohol?

So speculating an imbalance of Testosterone given what is know about his masturbating habbits seems reasonable.

The police never charged Aaron Kosminski with being Jack the Ripper and as his committal to the asylum was initiated by his family, not by the police, he would NOT have been sent to Broadmoor. Unless the family conveyed their suspicions (and why would they?) there is no reason why it would be mentioned in his admittal notes. Plus it clearly does mention him threatening a sister with a knife so he clearly could be dangerous. Swanson suggests that he was taken to the asylum under restraint, again suggesting violence.

OK there is no mention of Aaron being the Ripper, but the medical papers are biannual reports concerning his physical health and in many cases no more than ‘NO CHANGE’ was writen. Apart from the committal papers, no real mention is made of his mental illness or the ways in which it manifested itself. We know, for example, that he suffered both audio and visual hallucinations, but we don’t know the form they took. We don’t know what the voices said? For all we know he regularly described mutilating bodies? We do NOT know, the records don’t contain this stuff.

Finally, we know that Thomas Cutbush was seriously suspected of being Jack the Ripper, yet no mention of that fact is made in any of his surviving medical papers. So why would we expect it to be mentioned in Aarons papers when he was committed by his own family NOT the police?

Pirate

[Simon Wood]

Hi Stephen,

I'll bet you a quid some genius comes along and argues the toss about that.

Regards,

Simon

[Stephen Thomas]

Jack the Ripper would not have been put in Colney Hatch.

Or Leavesdon.

Even young bottom-prodder Cutbush got Broardmoor.

(though fellow bottom prodder Collicott only got a slap on the wrist)

[Natalie Severn]

Im out of my depth discussing Schizophrenia in any meanigful way.

I would say however that plenty serial killers have been harmless once imprisoned. I am surprised though that no mention of Kosminski's potential danger are recorded in his notes. Unless the police did not mention there suspicions even to medical staff.

In a state financed asylum,which Colney Hatch and Leavesdon were,they would have been obliged to inform the medical staff of their suspicions.