Anderson in NY Times, March 20, 1910

[perrymason]

Sorry Michael but this rearly is the same old 'Kosminski' was a looney eating out of the gutter MANTRA..

It anoys me because it shows little concern or consideration about a serious illness: SCHIZOPHRENIA

Not only is it possibe Aaron was a relatively high acheiving but also that his family might have been seriously confused by his behaviour.

What you are trying to do is rationalize the un-rational.

Pirate

Im not sure why you are so pissed at me for suggesting that no family of any kind would harbor a member of their own who they knew, or felt strongly, that was guilty of mutilating women he murders out on the streets.

Yes, today families of terrorists who know the plans of their children or relatives might conceal them from justice outside "their own kind".....like an Iraqi on Iraq soil who would be taken into custody by Americans or any of the coalition under the same pretext, for murdering innocent people.

But thats due to the politics of occupations... not theology or ethnicity. In the LVP, based on my scenario, those roles were different..the crimes were by local men and investigated by the same. The Immigrants didnt feel like invaders or like the Police were oppressors from another land.

Best regards Pirate

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi Michael

Firstly I must apologies if my post gave you the impression I was directly ‘Pissed’ at you. I am aware that that my crafting of words is not always as strong as it could be.. for was not my intension.

I was trying to deal with a generalized perception about Aaron Kosminski which I feel there is no real evidence for.

Firstly I’m saying that the research done by Rob and his cohorts has demonstrated a very different picture of the kosminski family to what was previously thought. Ie far from being poor polish Jews they appear to have been relatively wealthy tailors and indeed somewhat aspirational having owned a pub and eventually moving to Ramsaget to open a guest house.

Having spent some time with an expert on schizophrenia discussing the illness I also see Aaron far from being out of control masturbating and eating from the gutter as a very different young man in his teens. Perhaps even the family ‘Golden boy’. The one they saw as becoming a Doctor or lawyer or perhaps a Rabi.

The early stages of Schizophrenia can be very confusing for the families involved, with little idea why their loved one is starting to act so strangely. Also the illness often strikes the person in waves. So periods of normality and then psychotic episodes lasting between 12 and 16 weeks. Then back to normal..

Perhaps the family simply did what many do today and go into self denial about the problem. In your post you again use an analogy of ‘sane’ people doing bizarrely sane things out of apparent desperation, ie terrorism. We are not dealing with that here, we are dealing with a family going through the experience of illness. And the natural reaction to that might have been to help and protect. So its my belief that the family may have been through a long struggle to try and help before eventually admitting there was nothing they could do any further.

May I again take this opportunity of wishing you a very Merry Xmas and my deepest apologies if you interpreted my post as personal in any way what so ever.

Merry Xmas

Yours Jeff/Pirate

[jason_c]

Maxine Carr gave a false alibi for Ian Huntley to the police during the Soham inquiry. Its not quite the same scenario as Kosminski and his family but an example of an educated person putting emotion and love ahead of doing the right thing.

[Stephen Thomas]

I really don't understand all this stuff about Anderson's THEORY which I've been seeing for years. Anderson is not saying that such and such MIGHT have happened, he is saying they DID happen. He is offering up a STATEMENT OF FACT. Maybe he was telling the truth and maybe he was lying but either way he was not theorising.

[DVV]

Hi Stephen,

Yes, he's offered a "statement of fact", but also said he had already formed his theory, clever as he was... and this theory proved to be correct when suspicions fell on a certain Polish Jew.

Amitiés, meilleurs voeux,
David

[Chris]

I really don't understand all this stuff about Anderson's THEORY which I've been seeing for years. Anderson is not saying that such and such MIGHT have happened, he is saying they DID happen. He is offering up a STATEMENT OF FACT. Maybe he was telling the truth and maybe he was lying but either way he was not theorising.

But it's worth bearing in mind that as late as 1895 - four years after Aaron Kozminski was committed to Colney Hatch - Arthur Griffiths was describing Anderson's opinion in these terms:
He has himself a perfectly plausible theory that Jack the Ripper was a homicidal maniac, temporarily at large, whose hideous career was cut short by committal to an asylum.

http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/dst-spe.html

[DVV]

Exactly, Chris,

...
1894: Macnaghten memo.
1895: First mention of an Anderson theory.

Amitiés,
David

[perrymason]

To Pirate, no offense taken at all and thanks for expanding on what you meant. I would agree that he seems to have been ill but far from the drooling feeb many think of him.

My best regards mate, and return wishes for a great Holiday for you and yours.

Best regards

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

In the complete absence of any evidence to show that Aaron Kosminski was Jack the Ripper, what does it matter to us whether the poor man was a drooling vegetable or Brain of Britain? He was what he was, and we can get a pretty good idea about that from his extant case notes. No amount of argument about the many and varied manifestations of schizophrenic behaviour is going to make him any less innocent.

If we are truly concerned about such matters, then Aaron Kosminski deserves better from us than the current lynch mob mentality which seems intent on protecting the reputations of two top cops at the exorbitant expense of condemning an innocent man to eternal damnation.

Better to spend our time asking why Macnaghten originally chose to put Kosminski in the frame for the Whitechapel murders, why it took seven years for Anderson to first advance his nameless homicidal maniac committed to an asylum theory, and why someone so desperately wanted Macnaghten and Anderson to be seen walking on water that they were willing to tinker with Swanson's marginalia.

A very happy and prosperous New Year to you all.

Simon

[perrymason]

Hi All,

In the complete absence of any evidence to show that Aaron Kosminski was Jack the Ripper, what does it matter to us whether the poor man was a drooling vegetable or Brain of Britain? He was what he was, and we can get a pretty good idea about that from his extant case notes. No amount of argument about the many and varied manifestations of schizophrenic behaviour is going to make him any less innocent.

If we are truly concerned about such matters, then Aaron Kosminski deserves better from us than the current lynch mob mentality which seems intent on protecting the reputations of two top cops at the exorbitant expense of condemning an innocent man to eternal damnation.

Better to spend our time asking why Macnaghten originally chose to put Kosminski in the frame for the Whitechapel murders, why it took seven years for Anderson to first advance his nameless homicidal maniac committed to an asylum theory, and why someone so desperately wanted Macnaghten and Anderson to be seen walking on water that they were willing to tinker with Swanson's marginalia.

A very happy and prosperous New Year to you all.

Simon

I think that youre spot on Simon....what we need is to have a horse that can pull a cart, not a cart that must pull the horse. Reasons for the comments seem non existent....maybe that was the formal Ripper Suspect policy....make sure you suggest someone with no discernible connection with any of the Canonicals.

Hope you had a great Xmas mate.

[Cap'n Jack]

You little tinker, Simon!
Good post.
Basically any Jew would have done, but one with a name was better.

[Stephen Thomas]

Basically any Jew would have done, but one with a name was better.

Except that Anderson doesn't give a name. Kos(z)minski's name is only mentioned in Macnaghton's dodgy dossier and in an addition to Swanson's notes in Anderson's book. What's to have stopped the authorities banging a Jewish JTR in the local 'looney bin' under the name Tommy Atkins or whatever?

[jason_c]

Hi All,

In the complete absence of any evidence to show that Aaron Kosminski was Jack the Ripper, what does it matter to us whether the poor man was a drooling vegetable or Brain of Britain? He was what he was, and we can get a pretty good idea about that from his extant case notes. No amount of argument about the many and varied manifestations of schizophrenic behaviour is going to make him any less innocent.

If we are truly concerned about such matters, then Aaron Kosminski deserves better from us than the current lynch mob mentality which seems intent on protecting the reputations of two top cops at the exorbitant expense of condemning an innocent man to eternal damnation.

Better to spend our time asking why Macnaghten originally chose to put Kosminski in the frame for the Whitechapel murders, why it took seven years for Anderson to first advance his nameless homicidal maniac committed to an asylum theory, and why someone so desperately wanted Macnaghten and Anderson to be seen walking on water that they were willing to tinker with Swanson's marginalia.

A very happy and prosperous New Year to you all.

Simon

No need to spend our time doing that, we already have the answer.

"Kosminski -- a Polish Jew -- & resident in Whitechapel. This man became insane owing to many years indulgence in solitary vices. He had a great hatred of women, specially of the prostitute class, & had strong homicidal tendencies: he was removed to a lunatic asylum about March 1889. There were many circumstances connected with this man which made him a strong 'suspect'."

Wether we believe the above, it is the arguement against Kosminski handed down to us.

And any desperate tinkering to show Anderson and MacNaghten walking on water would benefit from these two agreeing with each other in the first place.

[DVV]

Wether we believe the above, it is the arguement against Kosminski handed down to us.

And any desperate tinkering to show Anderson and MacNaghten walking on water would benefit from these two agreeing with each other in the first place.

Hi Jason,

you must be kidding.
Just have a look at the Ostrogish part of the same document...
How accurate would you find it ?

Amitiés,
David

[Stephen Thomas]

Things get confused.

What has to be remembered is..............

Anderson does not give the name of the person he said did it.