Anderson in NY Times, March 20, 1910

[perrymason]

I think Malice needs to have been seen to enable even the suggestion on valid grounds......or menace. Dark emotions, fantasies and impulses, as Jeff said, which are not necessarily at the core of a Schizophrenia diagnosis. Was any of that present with AK in the records?

Best regards all.

[jason_c]

Im out of my depth discussing Schizophrenia in any meanigful way.

I would say however that plenty serial killers have been harmless once imprisoned. I am surprised though that no mention of Kosminski's potential danger are recorded in his notes. Unless the police did not mention there suspicions even to medical staff.

[Natalie Severn]

Thanks Pirate!

The first point I would like to make concerns your remark about Aaron Kosminski"s sex drive. As I understand it, nothing whatsoever is known about his sex drive. What we do know is that doctors wrote of Aaron"s auditory and visual hallucinations,each being strong indicators of a tendency to schizophrenic psychosis or episodes of hearing voices etc.
Apart from this we are told in his doctor"s reports that his concerns focussed on a "universal instinct" which he believed "guided him in all his affairs" etc.But about his sex drive nothing is written.I know his family were very worried about his masturbatory habits,but that doesnt indicate a strong sex drive,in fact it could simply be a manifestation of some insecurities and anxieties and the way in which he obtained release from them.We hear nothing more about his "self abuse"from his hospital records after he was admitted, but quite a bit is written,albeit in an abbreviated form, about his hallucinations .Now if for example ,it had ever been reported by his family or in his case notes,that he was given to being up all night in brothels,that might indicate he had a strong sex drive but this was not written,nor was there any hint of any interest in the opposite sex.By contrast the impression one gets is that far from engaging with women in the act of sex, he spent most of the time having delusions about messages he was receiving about how to eat and drink.Apart from this ,he was from time to time very obstinate ,refusing,notably, in making a contribution to care for himself presenting at these times as dirty and unkempt or refusing to involve himself in work of any kind.He also refused to speak in English from time to time,using only his mother tongue,German/Yiddish.
So if this was Jack the Ripper,he was quite a gentle cat really!

[Natalie Severn]

Im out of my depth discussing Schizophrenia in any meanigful way.

I would say however that plenty serial killers have been harmless once imprisoned. I am surprised though that no mention of Kosminski's potential danger are recorded in his notes. Unless the police did not mention there suspicions even to medical staff.

In a state financed asylum,which Colney Hatch and Leavesdon were,they would have been obliged to inform the medical staff of their suspicions.

[Stephen Thomas]

Jack the Ripper would not have been put in Colney Hatch.

Or Leavesdon.

Even young bottom-prodder Cutbush got Broardmoor.

(though fellow bottom prodder Collicott only got a slap on the wrist)

[Simon Wood]

Hi Stephen,

I'll bet you a quid some genius comes along and argues the toss about that.

Regards,

Simon

[Jeff Leahy]

Hi Norma.

Aaron is clearly mentioned as practicing solitary vices and as I have demonstrated there are links between hormonal imbalance and Schizophrenia. But as I said my expert would expect lower than usual sex drive once imprisoned. What we can’t know is what external influences would have been a contributing factor, be that drugs or alcohol?

So speculating an imbalance of Testosterone given what is know about his masturbating habbits seems reasonable.

The police never charged Aaron Kosminski with being Jack the Ripper and as his committal to the asylum was initiated by his family, not by the police, he would NOT have been sent to Broadmoor. Unless the family conveyed their suspicions (and why would they?) there is no reason why it would be mentioned in his admittal notes. Plus it clearly does mention him threatening a sister with a knife so he clearly could be dangerous. Swanson suggests that he was taken to the asylum under restraint, again suggesting violence.

OK there is no mention of Aaron being the Ripper, but the medical papers are biannual reports concerning his physical health and in many cases no more than ‘NO CHANGE’ was writen. Apart from the committal papers, no real mention is made of his mental illness or the ways in which it manifested itself. We know, for example, that he suffered both audio and visual hallucinations, but we don’t know the form they took. We don’t know what the voices said? For all we know he regularly described mutilating bodies? We do NOT know, the records don’t contain this stuff.

Finally, we know that Thomas Cutbush was seriously suspected of being Jack the Ripper, yet no mention of that fact is made in any of his surviving medical papers. So why would we expect it to be mentioned in Aarons papers when he was committed by his own family NOT the police?

Pirate

[Simon Wood]

Hi Jeff,

Exactly who seriously suspected Cutbush of being the Ripper?

Qu'Appelle Progress [Saskatchewan, Canada] 29th March 1894—

"The police who have been interested in the Whitechapel murder cases are not disposed to give much credit to the Sun's story, which is generally regarded as sensational, and open to grave suspicions as to its veracity.

"One of the most unbelievable ideas put forward in the series of Sun newspaper articles is that Doctor Nicholson was not aware—until the arrival of the Sun's intrepid reporters—that one of his charges was 'Jack the Ripper'.

"The mention of the name of the one man above all others in whom the representatives of The Sun were interested caused the production of a large brown envelope, which contained the whole of the documents relative to the case for which he was incarcerated in Broadmoor. In these there was naturally no mention of his supposed connection with the Whitechapel crimes, and Dr. Nicholson was absolutely astonished, not to say incredulous, when informed as to the identity of the wretched lunatic in whom he had previously taken no more than an official interest."

Regards,

Simon

[Cap'n Jack]

The progression of a lunatic is the progression of a lunatic, it follows that dint of progress that a maturing lunatic would spend time in Colney Hatch before he finally docked at Broadmoor, that is the natural progression of lunacy.
However it must be said that a lunatic who was sectioned to Broadmoor at Her Majesty's Pleasure was deemed to be a danger to the public and Realm, whilst someone confined to Colney Hatch was perhaps only a danger to himself.
This is rare distinction, and should be acted upon in our thoughts and submissions here.
One could hop over the wall at Colney Hatch, but one would need more than a hop at Broadmoor.
Finally they had a billiards room at Broadmoor, whilst at Colney Hatch they had none, this gave the lunatics the opportunity to fiddle with someone else's balls rather than their own.
I rest me case.

[Natalie Severn]

Actually Cap"n, Colney Hatch was very well stocked with state of the art work and recreational equipment as well as a well trained staff.It was one of the most progressive institutions for the mentally ill in the UK.But Aaron"s problem was that he was work shy!

You are though quite right regarding Thomas Cutbush being sent straight to Broadmoor.Why not Colney Hatch?

[Scott Nelson]

Didn't they have a patient's orchestra at Broadmoor as well? None at the Hatch, as far as I know.

[Natalie Severn]

Pirate,
think of these words in the song by L. Cohen, ".....or the homicidal bitchin that goes on in every kitchen"
How provoked was Aaron in this very traditional Jewish household-which we know it was?Was he forever being got at for not "conforming"?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Scott,

James Kelly played violin in the Broadmoor Patients Orchestra.

Regards,

Simon

[Jeff Leahy]

Mistaken post please delete

Pirate,
think of these words in the song by L. Cohen, ".....or the homicidal bitchin that goes on in every kitchen"
How provoked was Aaron in this very traditional Jewish household-which we know it was?Was he forever being got at for not "conforming"?

Well they cearly were not orthadox. What do you mean by traditional exactly?

Also you are now touching into the nature nurture debate on Schizophrenia, I will see if I can dig up some stuff on genetics.

Pirate

[Natalie Severn]

If you read up on the care the family took over Aaron"s burial you will see it to have been in line with Jewish traditions.The family brought Aaron"s body back from Leavesdon and then everything was managed according to Jewish tradition by a Jewish burial parlour in Aldgate.