Frederick Abberline

[MysterySinger]

But on the other hand... this could be totally wrong!

[MysterySinger]

Very superstitious, writings on the wall (Stevie Wonder).

Form the web - In fact, "the writing's on the wall" is an idiom that basically means, "doom and gloom are upon us, and there's nothing you can do about it." The phrase dates all the way back to the Hebrew Bible and the book of Daniel, in which supernatural writing foretells the fall of the Kingdom of Babylon.

The Freemason's refer to the Great Whore of Babylon (and symbolise this is some of their structures) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toZAprNdElU

Then there's this - the child like drawings from the JTR letter don't have to have been made by him - but someone seems to have made a connection here with Masonry.

[GUT]

Ok so he maybe created the word accidentally - but it still came into use so if it wasn't in use by the Masons prior to JTRs time - whoever wrote it must take the credit. But the apron together with the wording is suspicious. More to come.....

You're starting to sound like Pierre.

I'll tell you eventually.

Just rubbish in my opinion.

[MysterySinger]

Either that or it was a mis-spelling of the word Jews. I know what my money would be on.

Ok so he maybe created the word accidentally - but it still came into use so if it wasn't in use by the Masons prior to JTRs time - whoever wrote it must take the credit. But the apron together with the wording is suspicious. More to come.....

[GUT]

The double negatives in the message doesn't denote a very educated person, IMO. I think Juwes was a mis-spelling. It's odd though, that all around Aldgate was once a Jewish ghetto (in early medieval times) and how often old Jewish sites pop up in these murders.

I can't decide if he were unedjicated like me or trying to appear that way.

But then I'm not even pursuaded it had anything to do with the murders.

[Rosella]

The double negatives in the message doesn't denote a very educated person, IMO. I think Juwes was a mis-spelling. It's odd though, that all around Aldgate was once a Jewish ghetto (in early medieval times) and how often old Jewish sites pop up in these murders.

[Observer]

Well if JTR really did write the GSG (and placed the apron piece there as well) and included the word Juwes, if nothing else, he might be due the credit for coining the collective term for the three ruffians now used in some Masonic circles.

Did he have a reason for hating Sir Charles Warren Pierre?

Either that or it was a mis-spelling of the word Jews. I know what my money would be on.

[GUT]

Now the other issue is that the Masons are more than just one group, so it may be that the term is known in some groups and not others.

[GUT]

Just to be clear: you asked a senior member of this Secret Society whether the graffito could link the Ripper Murders to his Secret Society and he said 'no'?

Um no.

The discussion was limited to a chat between two brethren as to use use if he term Juwes in the 1800s.

And the Masons actually aren't that secretive.

[MysterySinger]

There are references, to that effect, yes, but as I said, it would not surprise me if the term came into use as a result of the writing on the wall during the Ripper investigations. I doubt if it existed at all prior to the 30th September 1888. Of course I may well be wrong.

Well if JTR really did write the GSG (and placed the apron piece there as well) and included the word Juwes, if nothing else, he might be due the credit for coining the collective term for the three ruffians now used in some Masonic circles.

Did he have a reason for hating Sir Charles Warren Pierre?

[Purkis]

Yep and as I said before I know a fellow who was (maybe still is) the senior Mason in his Country, I trust him explicitly he says nope and no way, (I am certain that rather than lying to me he would have said he couldn't answer).

Just to be clear: you asked a senior member of this Secret Society whether the graffito could link the Ripper Murders to his Secret Society and he said 'no'?

[Observer]

Yep and as I said before I know a fellow who was (maybe still is) the senior Mason in his Country, I trust him explicitly he says nope and no way, (I am certain that rather than lying to me he would have said he couldn't answer).

Indeed.

[Observer]

Searching the internet, it does seem clear that some Masonic sites do refer to Juwes as the three ruffians. Whether the Masons did so prior to 1888 remains to be shown - it would be interesting to find out.

There are references, to that effect, yes, but as I said, it would not surprise me if the term came into use as a result of the writing on the wall during the Ripper investigations. I doubt if it existed at all prior to the 30th September 1888. Of course I may well be wrong.

[GUT]

Hi Pierre
To be fair I only did a very brief search There was however a contempory reference to the effect that certain Masons, when asked, stated that the word Juwes was not part of their vocabulary.

Regards

Observer

Yep and as I said before I know a fellow who was (maybe still is) the senior Mason in his Country, I trust him explicitly he says nope and no way, (I am certain that rather than lying to me he would have said he couldn't answer).

[Observer]

Hi,

I am sorry you have come to believe that. It is wrong.

Regards Pierre

Hi Pierre
To be fair I only did a very brief search There was however a contempory reference to the effect that certain Masons, when asked, stated that the word Juwes was not part of their vocabulary.

Regards

Observer