Frederick Abberline

[GUT]

Hi all

May I suggest that BEFORE Pierre hijacks this thread, ignore his comments unless he has something to back up his nonsense.

Nicole

Probably the best bit of advice ever given on these boards.

[MysterySinger]

From Observer: After a basic search, I now believe it likely that the word Juwes, to mean Jubela Jubelo and Jubelum, has it's origins as a result of the Whitechapel atrocities. An early urban myth. Find a reference pre 1888 whereby Juwes was a collective name for Jubela, Jubelo, Jubelum, and I'd be more convinced.

From Pierre: I am sorry you have come to believe that. It is wrong.

I'm not clear what Pierre thinks is wrong - whether the word Juwes doesn't refer to the three ruffians, whether it has any relevance to the Masons, whether the word wasn't in use prior to 1888, whether it has any relevance to the case or not. It would be good to clear his point up but either way he is entitled to hold that view.

Searching the internet, it does seem clear that some Masonic sites do refer to Juwes as the three ruffians. Whether the Masons did so prior to 1888 remains to be shown - it would be interesting to find out.

Amongst many theories I have regarding JTR is that he held a very strong sense of injustice about something and was reeling against the system, the establishment and, in particular both the Police and the Masonic movement (maybe even Mr Warren himself). I think he could have been sending messages both through the crimes he committed and in his choice of location and MOI. I'm less convinced that the victims, per se, were chosen because of who they were (their connections or names) than the fact that they were able to be murdered and left at the locations they were. The more experienced Ripperologists among you.won't find anything new in this. It wouldn't rule him out of being a Policeman and could certainly fit the placement of a torso at Scotland Yard. But then, what do I know?

[Observer]

Hi,

I am sorry you have come to believe that. It is wrong.

Regards Pierre

Hi Pierre
To be fair I only did a very brief search There was however a contempory reference to the effect that certain Masons, when asked, stated that the word Juwes was not part of their vocabulary.

Regards

Observer

[GUT]

Hi Pierre
To be fair I only did a very brief search There was however a contempory reference to the effect that certain Masons, when asked, stated that the word Juwes was not part of their vocabulary.

Regards

Observer

Yep and as I said before I know a fellow who was (maybe still is) the senior Mason in his Country, I trust him explicitly he says nope and no way, (I am certain that rather than lying to me he would have said he couldn't answer).

[Observer]

Searching the internet, it does seem clear that some Masonic sites do refer to Juwes as the three ruffians. Whether the Masons did so prior to 1888 remains to be shown - it would be interesting to find out.

There are references, to that effect, yes, but as I said, it would not surprise me if the term came into use as a result of the writing on the wall during the Ripper investigations. I doubt if it existed at all prior to the 30th September 1888. Of course I may well be wrong.

[Observer]

Yep and as I said before I know a fellow who was (maybe still is) the senior Mason in his Country, I trust him explicitly he says nope and no way, (I am certain that rather than lying to me he would have said he couldn't answer).

Indeed.

[Purkis]

Yep and as I said before I know a fellow who was (maybe still is) the senior Mason in his Country, I trust him explicitly he says nope and no way, (I am certain that rather than lying to me he would have said he couldn't answer).

Just to be clear: you asked a senior member of this Secret Society whether the graffito could link the Ripper Murders to his Secret Society and he said 'no'?

[MysterySinger]

There are references, to that effect, yes, but as I said, it would not surprise me if the term came into use as a result of the writing on the wall during the Ripper investigations. I doubt if it existed at all prior to the 30th September 1888. Of course I may well be wrong.

Well if JTR really did write the GSG (and placed the apron piece there as well) and included the word Juwes, if nothing else, he might be due the credit for coining the collective term for the three ruffians now used in some Masonic circles.

Did he have a reason for hating Sir Charles Warren Pierre?

[GUT]

Just to be clear: you asked a senior member of this Secret Society whether the graffito could link the Ripper Murders to his Secret Society and he said 'no'?

Um no.

The discussion was limited to a chat between two brethren as to use use if he term Juwes in the 1800s.

And the Masons actually aren't that secretive.

[GUT]

Now the other issue is that the Masons are more than just one group, so it may be that the term is known in some groups and not others.

[Observer]

Well if JTR really did write the GSG (and placed the apron piece there as well) and included the word Juwes, if nothing else, he might be due the credit for coining the collective term for the three ruffians now used in some Masonic circles.

Did he have a reason for hating Sir Charles Warren Pierre?

Either that or it was a mis-spelling of the word Jews. I know what my money would be on.

[Rosella]

The double negatives in the message doesn't denote a very educated person, IMO. I think Juwes was a mis-spelling. It's odd though, that all around Aldgate was once a Jewish ghetto (in early medieval times) and how often old Jewish sites pop up in these murders.

[GUT]

The double negatives in the message doesn't denote a very educated person, IMO. I think Juwes was a mis-spelling. It's odd though, that all around Aldgate was once a Jewish ghetto (in early medieval times) and how often old Jewish sites pop up in these murders.

I can't decide if he were unedjicated like me or trying to appear that way.

But then I'm not even pursuaded it had anything to do with the murders.

[MysterySinger]

Either that or it was a mis-spelling of the word Jews. I know what my money would be on.

Ok so he maybe created the word accidentally - but it still came into use so if it wasn't in use by the Masons prior to JTRs time - whoever wrote it must take the credit. But the apron together with the wording is suspicious. More to come.....

[GUT]

Ok so he maybe created the word accidentally - but it still came into use so if it wasn't in use by the Masons prior to JTRs time - whoever wrote it must take the credit. But the apron together with the wording is suspicious. More to come.....

You're starting to sound like Pierre.

I'll tell you eventually.

Just rubbish in my opinion.