Abberline in the movies

[Sam Flynn]

I got tired of Caine's screaming and over-acting alteady half-way through the film.

Glenn,

I wouldn't be so harsh on Caine myself, since it strikes me that a lot of the character is implicit in the script - the sarcasm, the swagger, the self-assuredness, even the swearing. You can't deliver "I am NOT responsible for what they say in the papers!" or "You bastard!" like a village vicar.

As I said earlier, David Wickes (scriptwriter and director of "JTR") worked on The Sweeney, and there's a hell of a lot of Jack Regan (played by John Thaw in the earlier TV series about the modern Flying Squad) written into Abberline's script. A look at the following excerpts from The Sweeney - only the first minute or so of each will do - for a flavour of where I'm coming from.

Note how much Detective Inspr Regan (the splendid John Thaw) is a prototype "Abberline", and how the dialogue between him and his boss, Haskins, are basically identical to the Abberline/Arnold interchanges in the "JTR" mini-series:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ibiuTed7wls

Or, bawling out another authority-figure in this one, with cool music:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_cNY79j7lMk

Regan's relationship with Detective Sgt Carter (Dennis Waterman) eerily foreshadows Caine's with Lewis Collins, as can be seen in abundance in this compilation, which starts with a classic line from John Thaw:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=YZuNTRbZBv8

Note, also, Regan's fondness for booze.

[kensei]

I completely disagree.
I got tired of Caine's screaming and over-acting alteady half-way through the film. I guess it's all a matter of personal preferences but the Abberline character that Caine plays in the film is a really intimidating guy and very unsympathetic and who seem to enjoy harrassing ordinary people, including witnesses - almsot on the border of being psychopathic. Definitely not someone I would like to have as a boss, even by 19th century standards.
If you think Caine's portrait is 'balanced' then you must have flunk in psychology class.

All the best

Well, while recognizing that we're debating a mostly fictional portrayal rather than how the real Abberline would have been, and that I'm working completely from memory here, I guess I admit that Caine's Abberline did seem to be unnecessarily harsh with people like Lees and Mansfield, and especially with Lusk, but then the portrayal of Lusk was itself completely over the top and completely wrong. He was also constantly trading sarcastic barbs with the city cops like, "Warn me if you ever have an original thought, Spratling, I don't wanna die of shock." And at the Chapman crime scene, in answer to a question about where Godley was: "My sergeant is the only policeman in London not traipsing all over this bloody yard, that I do know!"

But some other examples of him being reserved or even sympathetic come to mind, in no certain order--

Again at Hanbury Street, he asks witness John Richardson "You ever use a knife?" but then when that makes the man nervous and defensive he simply waves him away with, "There are two detectives inside taking statements, give them yours."

A couple of suspects are brought in, one of them John Pizer, and Abberline (working from a fictional theory that the Ripper is left-handed) gives them very quick and simple tests to see what what their dominant hand is and then cuts them loose without a second thought.

A line of ne'er-do-wells who are always routinely brought in "whenever there's a murder" are brought in and offered soup for their troubles. Abberline laughs them off and says, "Give them the soup."

Abberline tells Godley he can opt out of the case if he wants when the mention of royal involvement makes it politically charged. "Look, George, you have a family..."

When invited to attend a meeting between Commissioner Warren and the Prime Minister himself, Abberline stands silent until the PM asks if he has everything he needs. "I could always do with more men, sir," are the only words he speaks in the entire meeting as far as I remember.

One of the most striking moments in the whole film is Abberline and Godley emerging like zombies from Mary Kelly's room after viewing her body. Godley is in tears but Abberline looks simply stunned, momentarily defeated, completely at a loss, a good rendition I think of how most of the people who viewed that scene probably reacted.

He does completely explode and rave at the top of his lungs at Dr. Ackland in the final scene after Gull is exposed as the Ripper (backed up for the moment by absolutely maniacal background music), but then I think his final line at the very end, spoken to Godley, is a very good example of balance, because the words are radical but they're spoken in a completely calm voice. "Then you should have let me shoot him."

You're right Glenn, it is a matter of personal preferences and I admit I really love that movie despite its many flaws. Not trying to argue, just throwing out some personal observations.

[Johnr]

Evening All,
O.K. if a film is ham-strung by using a brilliant scriptwriter of previously successful formula T.V. cop shows, David Wickes, to guide the making of the Michael Caine version, I suppose the audience is stuck with the type-cast director/scriptwriter (Wickes) and the typecast leading actor (Caine).
Their successful but predictable performances will boil down to whether you like those previous cop shows and/or if you liked Michael Caine in " Zulu "...etcetera.
Given nobody in real life knew what the Ripper looked like, and nobody on these boards has ever seen a photo of Abberline , their appearance and behaviour was an open book for the studio to invent.
Personally, I think the whole movie would have worked much better if they had cast Ronnie Corbett as Abberline, and Dianna Rigge as Jill the Ripper.
I personally, loved The Sweeney.
( Which, after all, had a much more interesting cab driver in that show than the Michael Caine movie).
I just hope our American cousins and Scandinavian cousins can catch the drift
of what I am trying to say. JOHN RUFFELS.

[fido]

Correcting an early post on this thread: "The Final Solution" was by Stephen Knight, not just Stephen, and was the most popular Ripper theory on the market at the time (Sir William Gull and the Freemasons covering uip PAV's secret marriage to Annie Elizabeth Crook).
The really scandalous thing about the mini-series was a lot of false pre-publicity claiming that they producers had found new evidence and were offering a definite solution, which was being kept so secret that they had made several differen versions of the ending so that neither cast nor crew could give away which one was true.
When they just came out with th familar theory and were called on their lying advertising, the studio blamed Wickes and Wickes blamed "an over-enthusiastic publicity department".
All the best,
Martin F

[Voyeur]

I've seen Abberline portrayed in film by Michael Caine (who was probably the most perfect choice in the world at that time, though they should have had him grow the facial hair

As a ridiculous fan of Michael Caine, I happen to know a story from Caine himself that he asked the director if he should grow a mustache for the role. And the director told him, he's getting paid a million dollars so audiences will see it's Michael Caine playing Abberline. So the director nixed the stache.

Still Caine was awesome. Love the jail confession scene!

[Nothing to see]

Caine was very good (and enjoyable) because Caine is a very good actor. But Abberline was a Dorset man yet Caine, who can put on a toff accent (as in Zulu), played him with his own cockney accent. I suppose he was trying to make Fred sound like what people today would expect.

Caine is a much better fit to me as Abberline than a certain J Depp. I think 'From Hell' is a far superior piece of work in costume, setting, props but the story is just an over the top bastar******** of Caines. Both based on Knight's doozy of a conspiracy.


But why do they find it necessary to portray poor old Fred as an alcoholic and an opium addict? And Fred envisioning running off with MJK? What about his wife who was alive and kicking at the time? Things that make you go h'm.

[Voyeur]

Caine was very good (and enjoyable) because Caine is a very good actor. But Abberline was a Dorset man yet Caine, who can put on a toff accent (as in Zulu), played him with his own cockney accent. I suppose he was trying to make Fred sound like what people today would expect.

Caine is a much better fit to me as Abberline than a certain J Depp. I think 'From Hell' is a far superior piece of work in costume, setting, props but the story is just an over the top bastar******** of Caines. Both based on Knight's doozy of a conspiracy.


But why do they find it necessary to portray poor old Fred as an alcoholic and an opium addict? And Fred envisioning running off with MJK? What about his wife who was alive and kicking at the time? Things that make you go h'm.

That's a good question. No doubt the filmakers love to add vices to lead characters like that, when it's not really necessary. And Caine can certainly lose the cockney accent if he's called upon to do so. Many of his famous roles (Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, Hannah and Her Sisters, The Quiet American, etc) are non-cockney.

[Nothing to see]

Well, I guess I'm in the minority and I couldn't buy enough tickets to make a movie profitable. The truth so far as we know it is much more interesting than some of the stuff movie makers come up with. I thought Lewis Collins did an impressive job as Caine's sidekick - whatever happened to him, anyway? And Robbie Coltrane was equally good in 'From Hell'.

But why is it the only story they want to tell is Knight's rubbish? I guess becase they figure it's the only one that would make money. Still, maybe one day, Fred will corner Jack in Flower and Dean St and knock him unconscious with his walking stick. In the movies, of course.

[Mike Covell]

You might well get your wish when "Wolfman" is released later this year.

Hugo Weaving is to play Detective Aberline (Only one B) who is in charge of finding a mysterious killer in a sleepy hamlet, who appears to be a Werewolf!

Here is a quote from a recent review,

When we first meet Hugo Weaving's character, we learn he had previously investigated "The Ripper," and is convinced the crimes he is now investigating are similar.

http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0069931/

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0780653/

[Voyeur]

I agree that the Caine mini-series now seems to be way off. But at the time it was probably the most fact-based dramatic representation of the case.

There were some overly dramatic moments. The music was a bit much at times and I could have done without Jane Seymoure's character altogether. But I feel it respected the source and told me more about the Ripper than any other movie I'd seen before it. Plus, it was a dead exciting and suspenseful production at times.

[Sam Flynn]

I agree that the Caine mini-series now seems to be way off. But at the time it was probably the most fact-based dramatic representation of the case.

Actually, the Barlow & Watt dramatisation followed the facts most closely, in my view. The reconstructions were very well presented (costumes especially) and the script stuck pretty faithfully to the official inquest records etc. As it first came out in 1973, however, I daresay the programme was before your time

I could have done without Jane Seymoure's character altogether.

Agreed - I could have done without that over-the-top Lusk as well!

[Crystal]

1973? You're ancient Sam Flynn!
Seriously, you reckon this is the best, do you? Honest question! No tricks, honest guv!

[Sam Flynn]

1973? You're ancient Sam Flynn!

No kidding - my best mate at school was Slartibartfast. Actually, I watched the serialisation last year, when some kind soul put up a streaming version on YouTube, or some such site. I wish the BBC would bring out a proper version on DVD, but I guess it's pretty much a niche market.

Seriously, you reckon this is the best, do you? Honest question! No tricks, honest guv!

I honestly do, Crystal, for the "flashback" sequences especially. The script's adherence to the newspaper reports, inquest transcripts and other official records bring the witness testimony vividly to life; whilst the battered, grubby costumes of the working-class protagonists (and the battered, grubby appearance of the people wearing them!) are a million miles away from the inauthentic gaudy stereotypes seen in almost every other dramatisation I can think of.

[Crystal]

Thanks for that-am ever so impressed by your schoolmates-just goes to show it isn't what you know, but who..!
Pity no DVD-we could lobby the BBC?

[Sam Flynn]

Pity no DVD-we could lobby the BBC?

Thanks for prompting me, Crystal. I've just done so, and will keep "the community" posted