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  • #16
    knifework

    Hello David. Let's be generic then. Whence Baxter's conviction that someone were removing organs and selling them? From Bagster's assessment of the knifework.

    Whence came that? From the skill shown in the wounds.

    My point? All talk of surgeons, expert cutters, etc. came from this source, and all depended--in the final analysis--upon the expertise seen in the cuttings.

    Cheers.
    LC

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by DVV View Post
      I know Abberline was an experienced and competent officer, but looking at his 1903 interviews, I can't help thinkink that he wasn't fit at all for the Ripper hunt, having been completely misled by Baxter and Phillips.

      How damaging would have been his belief that the killer was an "expert surgeon" ?
      Not to mention the killer's trip to America.

      In all likehood, he bit in the surgeon theory from the start. Hence his agreeing with Phillips that McKenzie had been murdered by a copy-cat, as reported in May 1892.

      Apart from other causes (no DNA at the time, random murders, etc), would this partly explain the police failure ?
      Hi David

      As Neil can attest, Abberline was a very experienced Metropolitan police officer, by the standards of the day.

      That's not to say though that his understanding of the medical aspects of the case might have been on the simplistic or deluded side, and nor that he might not have accepted some wrong ideas about the killer.

      Abberline probably accepted early on the prevailing idea that the Ripper had surgical skill. Such prejudices took hold early on in the case, despite the later heated denial by the medical community that the killer had any surgical skill whatsoever.

      Let's face it, because the police had so little actual evidence to work with, and they were constantly bombarded with information and leads that often had little to do with the actual killer, all types of theories and ideas took hold.

      Then as now, your theory is as good as mine, and the Ripper can be whomever you want him to be.

      Best regards

      Chris
      Christopher T. George
      Organizer, RipperCon #JacktheRipper-#True Crime Conference
      just held in Baltimore, April 7-8, 2018.
      For information about RipperCon, go to http://rippercon.com/
      RipperCon 2018 talks can now be heard at http://www.casebook.org/podcast/

      Comment


      • #18
        denial

        Hello Chris.

        "Such prejudices took hold early on in the case, despite the later heated denial by the medical community that the killer had any surgical skill whatsoever."

        I thought those denials attached chiefly to Kate and MJK's murders?

        Cheers.
        LC

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by ChrisGeorge View Post
          Hi David

          As Neil can attest, Abberline was a very experienced Metropolitan police officer, by the standards of the day.

          That's not to say though that his understanding of the medical aspects of the case might have been on the simplistic or deluded side, and nor that he might not have accepted some wrong ideas about the killer.

          Abberline probably accepted early on the prevailing idea that the Ripper had surgical skill. Such prejudices took hold early on in the case, despite the later heated denial by the medical community that the killer had any surgical skill whatsoever.

          Let's face it, because the police had so little actual evidence to work with, and they were constantly bombarded with information and leads that often had little to do with the actual killer, all types of theories and ideas took hold.

          Then as now, your theory is as good as mine, and the Ripper can be whomever you want him to be.

          Best regards

          Chris
          Agreed, Chris, and this thread is in no way another stupid attempt to blame the police.
          Indeed, the more experienced Abberline was, the more extraordinary the case seems, and is - thanks to the experienced Abberline's "rantings".
          Last edited by DVV; 03-02-2012, 08:03 PM.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by DVV View Post
            Just felt the need to quote that. Before Neil jump at me with his truncheon.
            Steady now.

            Why are you getting hung up over a 1903 article which was obviously a sensational report rather than something substantial?

            Abberline is doing nothing more than going with the hype. Its what Ex Coppers on major cases do.

            Monty


            PS For the benefit of Maria and anyone else who is interested .

            http://www.casebook.org/press_report.../19030324.html

            http://www.casebook.org/press_report.../19030331.html
            Last edited by Monty; 03-02-2012, 11:44 PM.
            Monty

            https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

            Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

            http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

            Comment


            • #21
              Monty!

              You CHANGED your sign-off signature...??

              Wow. Thanks. And I was not even being all that serious.

              What can I do for you?

              Fisherman
              in awe

              Comment


              • #22
                The sensational press -- then and now -- would seem to have nothing on Casebook thread starters. That is, whatever else they may have been, Aberline's comments to the press in 1903 were most assuredly not rants.

                Don.
                "To expose [the Senator] is rather like performing acts of charity among the deserving poor; it needs to be done and it makes one feel good, but it does nothing to end the problem."

                Comment


                • #23
                  Let's be honest with ourselves, here. Do you really think these articles would even exist had Abberline said: "Look, I really don't have any idea who committed the White Chapel Murders, nor have any of my interpretations of evidence, including my belief the killer had surgical skill, been proven to be valid."

                  He had a theory. A lot of people had theories. But nobody had the evidence for a definitive answer. He was an ex-cop who gave the newspaper reporter his best shot, and might have (but not necessarily) liked getting a little attention besides.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    You're welcome Fish.

                    Monty
                    Monty

                    https://forum.casebook.org/core/imag...t/evilgrin.gif

                    Author of Capturing Jack the Ripper.

                    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/1445621622

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      agreeing again

                      Hello Neil. Are we agreeing again? Don't look now but I think Parousia is around the corner. (heh-heh)

                      Cheers.
                      LC

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Supe View Post
                        The sensational press -- then and now -- would seem to have nothing on Casebook thread starters. That is, whatever else they may have been, Aberline's comments to the press in 1903 were most assuredly not rants.

                        Don.
                        Don, my tailor is rich but my English is poor. The Ripper, in Abberline's words, was an expert surgeon that committed crimes in America. How this should be qualified ?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          The problem is that we do not know in what context the question was asked. As Wagstaff pointed out, the reporter's question might have been along the lines of "do you have a gut feeling about the case?" "You know, maybe something in the case that you think is significant?"

                          I think we need to cut Abberline some slack in this instance.

                          c.d.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Monro

                            Hello CD. Good point. As I recall, Monro was asked a similar question. Recall his artful brush off?

                            Cheers.
                            LC

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              In my opinion he exposed his theory quite meticulously.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Whom?

                                Hello David. Abberline? Sure. Monro? No, he remained reticent.

                                Cheers.
                                LC

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