Abberline's rantings

[DVV]

I know Abberline was an experienced and competent officer, but looking at his 1903 interviews, I can't help thinkink that he wasn't fit at all for the Ripper hunt, having been completely misled by Baxter and Phillips.

How damaging would have been his belief that the killer was an "expert surgeon" ?
Not to mention the killer's trip to America.

In all likehood, he bit in the surgeon theory from the start. Hence his agreeing with Phillips that McKenzie had been murdered by a copy-cat, as reported in May 1892.

Apart from other causes (no DNA at the time, random murders, etc), would this partly explain the police failure ?

[DVV]

I know Abberline was an experienced and competent officer

Just felt the need to quote that. Before Neil jump at me with his truncheon.

[mariab]

How damaging would have been his belief that the killer was an "expert surgeon"?
Not to mention the killer's trip to America.

Could you give me the interview quote for this, David? I don't have Sugden or much Ripper lit with me here in Chicago. I assume that Abberline is referring to Chapman in the quote in question?

In all likehood, he bit in the surgeon theory from the start. Hence his agreeing with Phillips that McKenzie had been murdered by a copy-cat, as reported in May 1892.

Not sure at all if Abberline “bit“ into the surgeon theory early on. If so, it might even be related to Tumblety without us knowing. I'm just saying, esp. since I'm planning to have a look at the local police Archives here in Chicago, in the very off chance there might be evidence of SY detectives having contacted the Pinkertons pertaining to Fenian suspects and other suspects traveling to the US and Canada from London.

[DVV]

Could you give me the interview quote for this, David? I don't have Sugden or much Ripper lit with me here in Chicago. I assume that Abberline is referring to Chapman in the quote in question?

Hi Maria, it's all in the Pall Mall Gazette 1903. Two interviews, and rather long.

Not sure at all if Abberline “bit“ into the surgeon theory early on. If so, it might even be related to Tumblety without us knowing.

Why not ? on the contrary, we have every reason to believe it was the case. In 1903, he "remembered" perfectly the Baxter-Phillips theory, and in all likeness, that means he had long since entertained it. Another evidence is his opinion concerning Alice McKenzie, murdered just months after Kelly.

[lynn cates]

But then there's that.

Hello David.

"I can't help thinking that he wasn't fit at all for the Ripper hunt, having been completely misled by Baxter and Phillips.'

Misled? How so?

"How damaging would have been his belief that the killer was an "expert surgeon"?"

Perhaps not at all. What has always fascinated me is not THAT they saw an experienced (skillful) hand, but WHY they saw one. The answer should be obvious.

"In all likehood, he bit in the surgeon theory from the start."

Well, his missive of September 19, 1888 indicates a butcher.

"Hence his agreeing with Phillips that McKenzie had been murdered by a copy-cat, as reported in May 1892."

Or possibly his excellent reasoning powers as an experienced copper.

"Apart from other causes (no DNA at the time, random murders, etc), would this partly explain the police failure?"

Possibly. But I think their problem was the same as today's problem--we tend to generalise and lump disparate things together. Then, too, many top people were on leave.

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

"I can't help thinking that he wasn't fit at all for the Ripper hunt, having been completely misled by Baxter and Phillips.'

Misled? How so?

LC

???
Misled. Yes.

[lynn cates]

How?

Hello David. I mean "Misled in what way?"

Did they misdescribe the wounds? Body placement?

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

Misled in a most terrible way, my dear.

[Stephen Thomas]

David

'Mon cher' might literally be translated into English as 'my dear' but in English such words are not uttered between male heterosexual persons.

Just for jolly.

[Stephen Thomas]

I know Abberline was an experienced and competent officer, but looking at his 1903 interviews, I can't help thinking that he wasn't fit at all for the Ripper hunt, having been completely misled by Baxter and Phillips.

Yeah, what a wanker.

[DVV]

No my d...friend.
What a clocker.

[lynn cates]

barrel of fun

Hello David.

"Misled in a most terrible way, my dear."

Umm, shocking, innint?

Seriously, this is too cryptic to fathom.

The barrel of Bruichladdich I sent? Oh, dear. You were not to drink it off at a single draught. You were to make it last.

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

Lynn, as a Scot, you should know single malt is no booze. Bruichladdich is elaborated by a great artist named Jim McEwan.
So don't be misled.
And to answer your question again, yes, he was misled by Baxter and Phillips. There was no expert surgeon behind the murders.

[lynn cates]

surgeon

Hello David. Thanks. This helps.

I think the surgeon business was a conjecture. As I've said before, THAT they thought it was perpetrated by a surgeon was probably a mistake; but, WHY they thought it was a surgeon may be significant.

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

Hi Lynn

I think the surgeon business was a conjecture.

It was a conviction in Abberline's interviews.

As I've said before, THAT they thought it was perpetrated by a surgeon was probably a mistake; but, WHY they thought it was a surgeon may be significant.

Not "they" tought. It's Abberline ("expert surgeon") and perhaps a few others. Even Macnaghten didn't go that far.