Abberline and Pirnie - the walking stick

[Phil Carter]

Hello all,

Thanks for the replies and the help

It is a very strange thing you know. This cane..or walking stick. .call it what you will...but I cannot find any reference, ever, to Abberline ever having had one on any newspaper report from the time he was active. Nothing.

The earliest mention of Abberline and the walking stick comes from 1974.

Can anyone find any mention earlier than that?


Many thanks



Phil

[Rosella]

There is an interesting discussion on the walking stick here on Casebook, Phil, in a 2004 thread 'Abberline's Walking Stick'.

The original inscription actually on the walking stick was 'Presented to Inspector Abberline as a mark of esteem by 7 officers engaged with him in the Whitechapel murders of 1888.'

So now we know the murderers!

I have the 1992 edition of the 'A-Z' and Abberline's walking stick display isn't even discussed in that. I own the 2010 hardback edition of 'A-Z' and the case inscription is in that one, as you've described.

The case's inscription reads as follows

The Whitechapel Murders
The Whitechapel Murders in 1888, commonly known as the 'Jack the Ripper' murders, took place in London between August 31st and November 9th.
The officer in charge of the investigation was Inspector (later Chief Inspector) Abberline and this stick appears to have been presented to him by his team of seven detectives at the conclusion of the Enquiry.
Whilst the murderer was never identified, it is known that Inspector Abberline favoured the theory that the Ripper was a Dr Alexander Pedachenko or Ostrog, an alleged Russian anarchist living in the London area at the time, and the head of the stick may well be based on his features.
The stick was found amongst the possessions of ex Chief Inspector Hugh Pirnie (Dorset and Bournemouth) by his son, Commander Ian Pirnie, RN, and presented by him to the college.
Chief Inspector Pirnie served on the directing staff from March 1950 to December 1953.

The above is from the 2010 edition of 'A-Z. Whether it's been changed since, I don't know.

[Phil Carter]

I have a question perhaps someone can answer?

In the A-Z it states that the description on the case within which the stick is displayed was changed in 2006.

Has anybody the details of both the original inscription and rewritten inscription available please? From what I understand, the original inscription is in the A-Z? Or perhaps it is the new one?

Any help would be most appreciated. Thank you ☺




Phil

[Bridewell]

Hi all,

This "find" is already in the latest edition of the A-Z.

Is there anything more that you've discovered?

JM

So not really a 'find' at all then!

[Abberline43519]

Here is a photo of him and a citation for his KPM.

43519 is Abberline's warrant number.

[jmenges]

Hi all,

I have found some details re. Pirnie, when a young Constable awarded the Kings Police Medal.

That's a good find.

This "find" is already in the latest edition of the A-Z.

Is there anything more that you've discovered?

JM

[Bridewell]

Welcome to Casebook, Abberline43519, by the way!

Is there any significance to the number?

[Bridewell]

In the 1911 census 3 year old Hugh Pirnie is living with his parents at 28, Upper Bugle Street, Southampton. Parents are Charles (a Ship Plate Rivetter) and Helen.

[Bridewell]

I have found some details re. Pirnie, when a young Constable awarded the Kings Police Medal.

That's a good find.

The King's Police Medal was introduced in 1909 following an armed robbery carried out, by two anarchists, in Tottenham. The modern QPM is awarded more for perceived managerial excellence than anything else, but the KPM seems to have been awarded for acts of bravery. Might it have been the award of the medal which made a favourable impression on Abberline? When did he get it and for what?

[Abberline43519]

I have found some details re. Pirnie, when a young Constable awarded the Kings Police Medal.

[fido]

Keith Skinner traved a Pirnie descendant, whose corrections to our thinking will appear in the New A-Z - if we can ever recover from the bankruptcy of teh original publisher!
Martin F

[George Hutchinson]

Bramshill is also the place where George Abbott (James I's Archbishop of Canterbury and a son of Guildford, where I live) became the only Archbishop of Canterbury to actually kill someone when he misfired a crossbow and shot dead a gamekeeper in the grounds in 1621.

PHILIP

[Chris Scott]

The only Hugh Pirnie for whom I can find a birth record was born in Gateshead, Co Durham, in the last quarter of 1907. If this is the man who was the father of Ian Pirnie, who donated the stick to Bramshill, he would have been 28 years of age at the time of Ian's birth in 1935, which is clearly feasible but not probative.
Also it would be feasible for this man to be on the Directing Staff for Bramshill from 1950, at which time he would have been 43 years of age.
However, Hugh Pirnie would have been considerably younger than Abberline. If this is the right man, then at the time of Abberline's death in 1929 he would have been only 22 years of age or thereabouts. Of course it is not impossible that the elderly Abberline might have gifted the stick to a much younger man, but it does raise the possibility that there may have been an intervening owner from whom Pirnie obtained the object in due course.
As the 1901 census was only 6 years before his birth I was hoping that I would find Hugh's family in Durham, but there was no family of the name Pirnie listed in that county in 1901. The nearest geographically was an Alexander Pirnie and his family living in Northumberland. In 1901 he was aged 44, Scottish born, and listed as an iron and steel worker. His wife Mary was aged 39 and born in Newcastle, Durham. At the time of the census they had 9 children ranging in age from 20 to 3 years of age. The family lived in Wallsend.

[Robert]

I believe there are still Pirnies in Dorset, including Poole.

It makes a change to see a navy man running a lunatic asylum instead of a lunatic running the navy.

[Chris Scott]

Hi Philip
I see what you mean!
Found this aerial photo of bramshill - an impressive building