Abberline and Pirnie - the walking stick

[Chris Scott]

Hi Philip
Thanks for the message
When I wrote
I don't know its present whereabouts
I didnt mean to imply that it was missing, only that I was not sure if it was still at the College
Regards
Chris

[George Hutchinson]

Bramshill Police College is actually a vast Jacobean Mansion, a few miles from where I was brought up. It's also reputedly one of the most haunted buildings in the country and one of the sources of the 'Mistletoe Bough' story. I had no idea the stick was missing.

PHILIP

[Chris Scott]

This resume is from Burke's Peerage:

IAN HUGH PIRNIE , CB (1992), DL (Cumbria 2000) [R-Adml Ian Pirnie CB DL, Cumbria and Lancashire Strategic Health Authority, Preston Business Centre, Watling Street Rd, Fulwood, Preston PR2 8DY]; born 17 June 1935; educated Christ's Hosp Horsham

[Chris Scott]

It looks as though Ian Pirnie stayed in the Navy and reached the top!
In a news story from 1999, regarding the problems at Ashworth Hall, a top security hospital summarised as follows:

Sprawled over a 250-acre site on the northern outskirts of Liverpool, Ashworth is one of Britain's three top security psychiatric hospitals. The others are Broadmoor and Rampton.
Behind Ashworth's grim, featureless walls are housed 425 patients, most of them convicted criminals. Of these, about 120 are considered incurable - most, in layman's terms, are psychopaths.

In this news story this passage was included:

But this was the only one of his recommendations rejected by the Health Secretary, Frank Dobson.
Mr Dobson has called for one more effort to run Ashworth efficiently, and he has asked retired Royal Navy admiral Ian Pirnie to devise an action plan.

Why a retired Admiral would be asked to advise on running a top security hospital is not made clear
This passage from Hansard also makes mention of this:
"The Fallon report makes 58 detailed recommendations. Some cover the operational procedures at Ashworth. I am giving the hospital authority four months to develop an action plan to implement the necessary changes within the hospital and I am appointing Ian Pirnie to chair the authority during this process. Mr. Pirnie presently chairs the Morcambe Bay Health Authority. I expect that he will bring to this task the leadership and management skills that he demonstrated as an admiral in the Royal Navy."

[Chris Scott]

I did find this announcement of Ian Pirnie's engagement. This gives a family address in Bournemouth, which would perhaps explain the Abberline connection, and corrects Ian's designation to R.N. (Royal Navy) not R.M.


The Times
25 August 1958

Forthcoming Marriages

Lieutenant I.H. Pirnie, R.N., and Miss S.P. Duckworth.
The engagement is announced between Ian Hugh, only son of Mr. and Mrs. H. Pirnie, of 12 Porchester Road, Bournemouth, and Sally Patricia, elder daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Alan Duckworth, of Hill House, Rochdale.

[Chris Scott]

Hi John
Many thanks for your replies and the info
I'll let you know anything I find out
Thanks again
Chris

[Johnr]

More Googlies...

And further to that Chris,
Additional Googling brought me the knowledge that there still seems to be some Pirnie link with Dorset.
Back in 2004 it seems a certain Peter Pirnie received 547 votes when he stood in the European election as candidate for Poole in Dorset.
He stood for the BNP (Nationalists) party. From which incidentally, local members of the police force were barred from belonging.
A 42 year old police constable named Gail Doreen Pirnie collapsed and died of a heart attack in October, 1994, at Stoke Newington.
The police car in which she was a rear seat passenger was crashed into from behind.
This provides indication of an on-going Pirnie family involvement with the police in England.
But, what interests me about your question Chris, and which surely would require a separate thread - or even a Dissertation : how much souveniring of police and Home Office JTR material went on? By whom?
And also a discussion of the major JTR memorabilia collections. I am sure yourself or Stewart P Evans could ably discourse on that theme?
JOHN RUFFELS.

[Johnr]

Some Info From The Old Boards

Hello Chris,
I'm afraid I cannot offer any help with tracking Hugh Pirnie, but Google
threw up this link to the old Casebook boards which discussed where the stick was last seen.
There is also reference to a Criminologist article about the walkingstick by Nick Warren in 1995.
You have obviously consulted Underwood's book, or Sugden's.
Here is the Google link:

http://www.casebook.org/forum/messages/4924/13776.html .

JOHN RUFFELS.

[Chris Scott]

I am trying to find any details about Hugh Pirnie mentioned on the engraved walking presented to Abberline. The stick, which was at Branshill Staff College (I don't know its present whereabouts), was annotated with the following information:
"The stick was found amongst the possessions of Ex-Chief Inspector Hugh Pirnie (Dorset and Bournemouth) by his son, Commander Ian Pirnie, R.M., and presented by him to the College.
Chief Inspector Pirnie served on the Directing Staff from March 1950 to December 1953."

I am trying to find out any info about Hugh Pirnie, what connection he had with Abberline and how he may have come into possession of the stick.
Any help gratefully received,
Chris