Detective Robert Sagar

[Patrick Differ]

Hi Jeff- I think you are likely correct about Eddowes running into JtR on his way from being interrupted with Stride. He wasn't finished and his controlled rage was likely taken out on her face. He definitely escalated. This whole night, in my view, gives perhaps the best clues on who JtR may have been.
The killer was murdering in Metro ( all but Kelly), he was going west after Stride and then kills Eddowes and disappears somewhere between Mitre and Goulston Street for an hour leaving his only clues, an apron and a message blaming Jews.
I do not believe that the Stride murder location was necessarily an accident. Not if you consider the animosity against Jews as a whole in Europe and London, and not if you consider the animosity of Englishmen against these Jewish immigrant radical Socialists. I keep thinking of the comment, " no Englishman would commit these atrocities", and then ponder who would write a message above a bloody clue condeming Jews as perpitrator. There are three choices: Christian, Immigrant Jew or Anglicized Jew. The latter indeed an Englishman. The anglicized Jewcwould have as much incentive to persecute the Immigrants as the Christians.
It was an immigrant Jew, Hyman Samson that convicted the anglicized Jew ..Jacob Levy, Sampson was displaced at 58 Goulston Street and moved directly next to Levy by the Board of Public Works creating a competitive situation between an immigrant and an anglicized jew. An the Englishman gets convicted of theft, attempts suicide, and ends up in an Asylum " before" the murders.
Where did the killer go after Eddowes? Likely to his home 5 minutes away to dump the organs. Since he lived there he knew the Police beat timing and walked to and from Goulston and /or could have visited his sister and brother who now lived in the Wentworth dwellings.
And what did he do? He left a clue where Sampson lived prior and a message blaming immigrant Jews. That was the interpretation. He also gave the police the idea he lived in Metro not in the City.
I don't know of any suspect that cleanly fits this scenario as well as the Butchers Row suspect. Joseph Hyam Levy may have been reluctant as a witness because he saw his cousin with Eddowes.
Did it happen like this? It's plausible.
Cheers

[JeffHamm]

Hi Jeff- I think you are likely correct about Eddowes running into JtR on his way from being interrupted with Stride. He wasn't finished and his controlled rage was likely taken out on her face. He definitely escalated. This whole night, in my view, gives perhaps the best clues on who JtR may have been.
The killer was murdering in Metro ( all but Kelly), he was going west after Stride and then kills Eddowes and disappears somewhere between Mitre and Goulston Street for an hour leaving his only clues, an apron and a message blaming Jews.
I do not believe that the Stride murder location was necessarily an accident. Not if you consider the animosity against Jews as a whole in Europe and London, and not if you consider the animosity of Englishmen against these Jewish immigrant radical Socialists. I keep thinking of the comment, " no Englishman would commit these atrocities", and then ponder who would write a message above a bloody clue condeming Jews as perpitrator. There are three choices: Christian, Immigrant Jew or Anglicized Jew. The latter indeed an Englishman. The anglicized Jewcwould have as much incentive to persecute the Immigrants as the Christians.
It was an immigrant Jew, Hyman Samson that convicted the anglicized Jew ..Jacob Levy, Sampson was displaced at 58 Goulston Street and moved directly next to Levy by the Board of Public Works creating a competitive situation between an immigrant and an anglicized jew. An the Englishman gets convicted of theft, attempts suicide, and ends up in an Asylum " before" the murders.
Where did the killer go after Eddowes? Likely to his home 5 minutes away to dump the organs. Since he lived there he knew the Police beat timing and walked to and from Goulston and /or could have visited his sister and brother who now lived in the Wentworth dwellings.
And what did he do? He left a clue where Sampson lived prior and a message blaming immigrant Jews. That was the interpretation. He also gave the police the idea he lived in Metro not in the City.
I don't know of any suspect that cleanly fits this scenario as well as the Butchers Row suspect. Joseph Hyam Levy may have been reluctant as a witness because he saw his cousin with Eddowes.
Did it happen like this? It's plausible.
Cheers

Hi Patrick,

What you suggest does hang together, although it does require making some choices that we cannot be sure are correct. Two of which are related to the Goulston Street location. First, we do not know that the message was written by JtR, it may have been but then it may not have. The other is that, while the apron piece wasn't found until an hour later, that doesn't mean it wasn't deposited there shortly after the crime was committed. While the PC patrolling the area does say it wasn't there, that only means he hadn't noticed it on his earlier patrol. We know he was unfamiliar with the beat (it was his first night on it I believe), and at the time of his earlier patrol he would have been unaware of the crime. I've not checked the timings, but it might be possible that his earlier patrol time and JtR's estimated arrival time at Goulston are sufficiently close that we have to even consider the possibility that JtR emerges onto Goulston just as he went by, allowing JtR to drop the apron "behind" the PC. If JtR is just ditching the piece of cloth because it has served it's purpose (and the medical testimony is that it appears he used it to wipe his hands and/or knife), then there's nothing about the particular location that is important other than he was headed in that direction.

Obviously, what I'm suggesting above is simply the result of considering different choices that also are available with regards to certain bits of information, but if those choices are closer to the truth then the connections to Levy are removed.

I'm not saying that proves your idea to be incorrect, it doesn't, it only means, like so often is the case, more research and information is required. However, I think you've put a good case forward for the idea that Jacob Levy might be the Butcher's Row suspect, and that he is worth looking into further. And in my view, that is far more than can be said for many "suspects".

- Jeff

[Scott Nelson]

Which 'Butcher's Row" are we talking about here? The one in Aldgate-High Street or the one in Middlesex Street (actually the Petticoat Lane Market)?

[JeffHamm]

Which 'Butcher's Row" are we talking about here? The one in Aldgate-High Street or the one in Middlesex Street (actually the Petticoat Lane Market)?

Hi Scott Nelson,

I've always thought it was the one in Aldgate-High Street that PC Sagar was referring to, but I didn't know the Petticoat Lane Market also had a "Butcher's Row" so I was unaware there was a choice to be made!

- Jeff

[Patrick Differ]

Middlesex Street connects to Aldgate on the West and Whitechapel High Street on the East. Middlesex Street is the demarcation between London City and Metro Police. Petticoat Lane is the connection of Middlesex Street, Wentworth and Goulston Street.
Butchers Row is the Southside of Aldgate going west from where Middlesex connects.
Consider that all the murders where in Metro except Eddowes which was after a failed attempt at Stride in Metro. Did the killer who disappeared right after Eddowes only to leave a clue on Goulston want to throw City Police off? His next murder was in Metro?

I believe the Police leadership convaluted the Polish names and were perhaps swayed too much by Leather Apron and Elizabeth Longs testimony. Kosminski, Kaminski, Cohen all immigrants ironically have similar stories to Jacob Levy, who was an Englishman, convicted by an immigrant Jew no less.

Sagar was medically trained and I believe they received a tip from a family member and the Jewish Butcher Theory would make a lot of sense if it was Jacob Levy. This puts Henry Levy in play who lived directly across from Butchers Row at #35 Aldgate. Henry was witness Joseph Hyam Levys brother and Jacob Levys first cousins.

Levy lived on the London City side of Middlesex Street and it could be he was never interviewed by Metro because of jurisdiction. They interviewed 76 Butchers so that list would be valuable if found in a Directory.

Levy spent 11 months in Essex Asylum from April 1886 to Feb 1887. Its hard to imagine how that affected him. He was readmitted in 1890 and died in 1891. This happened before Kosminski was admitted .

Levy is a serious contender.