Greetings from the past

[Elamarna]

I think we should nominate a special day once a year when we could all agree about at least one idea connected to this case. But what are the chances of agreeing on a date?

Hi Joshua,

I think the only thing you would get agreement on is the dates of the C5.

Not seen anyone every try and change those, solid evidence sort of makes it hard to do that I guess.

regards

steve

[curious4]

Then what was the lure to get them into dark locales in the small hours of the morning if they aren,t prostituting?

Possibly the prospect of being helped outbof the life they were living?

Just speculating here.

Best wishes
C4

[curious4]

Why would Kate have a bed for the night? Kelly only had money to pay for one person's accommodation. It cost eight pence in a lodging house for a couple to sleep together. How would she know if he'd managed to get any work enough to scrape that sum together?

I don't know about Kate being released 'by her own request'. It was the custom of the City Police, I believe, to release drunks from the cells once they'd sobered up and were able to take care of themselves. Admittedly, she was anxious to go but she probably didn't want to be in a cell any longer than necessary.

She both asked for the time and when she would be released. She also said that she could take care of herself. Doubtful that she would have been released at that time otherwise. More likely that she would have been released in the morning. Kelly seemed to think that she would be and was not particularly worried about her.

Best wishes
C4

[Geddy2112]

Was she a "prostitute" in that room - or a woman alone and drunk?

I'm still a teacher even when I'm not in the classroom.

[Errata]

Then what was the lure to get them into dark locales in the small hours of the morning if they aren,t prostituting?

Puppies? I don't know. And maybe they all were. But it feels wrong to make that decision because "everyone knows" that Jack wanted to kill prostitutes, as opposed to believing that what each woman was doing that night was in fact soliciting. Like we are using the wrong filter on that information.

[Joshua Rogan]

Sure. But there are theories based around the idea that Jack was actively seeking prostitutes for a variety of reasons. So if he wasn't strict about that, we need to either know why, or accept that there may be a serious flaw in the idea he was hunting prostitutes. Now, I'm fine either way. It just seems a sort of handy thing to all agree on. Sort of how we all generally agree on what a serial killer is.

I think we should nominate a special day once a year when we could all agree about at least one idea connected to this case. But what are the chances of agreeing on a date?

[Mayerling]

Not to make a habit of sticking up for him, but Pierre does have a point. Prostitution has degrees, and it surely must have an expiration date. So the idea of "prostitutes" is actually quite a bit more complex.

If a woman sells herself in the winter but not the other three seasons, is she a prostitute? If she was one five years ago? Ten? If she does not allow penetration?

I mean there are sociologists who have been studying prostitution for decades who have a really tough time nailing down a definition. And since we are trying to distill all of Jack's victims down into a "type", it makes sense to try and agree on a definition sooner rather than later. Because Nichols and Eddowes might not both fit in every person's definition.

Well, I guess my comments on "Prostitutes" regarding the ladies could be subject to some consideration about economic desperation. I really feel quite sympathetic for all five ladies (and their fellow victims throughout history) but that last question of the meaning of the term "Prostitutes" just made me see red. My apologies for overdoing it to the rest of the members of this website, with the exception of the person who asked the question.

Jeff

[Robert St Devil]

They were women who were out in the streets at night, alone and drunk. That was what he wanted.

Regards, Pierre

Then what was the lure to get them into dark locales in the small hours of the morning if they aren,t prostituting?

[David Orsam]

http://casebook.org/victims/

That link does not support the statement that the women were drunk (or even alone or on the streets for that matter, being simply a collection of victim photographs) nor does it support the statement that the killer wanted them in this condition.

[Errata]

Perhaps he was targeting women who looked like they might be prostitutes and wasn't too bothered whether they actually were or not.
Kate was a woman walking the streets alone after midnight, possibly still a little drunk, and last seen heading in the direction of Houndsditch, on which stands St Botolph's, the prostitutes church. Whether or not she was soliciting, it's easy to see how she might be mistaken for someone who was.

Sure. But there are theories based around the idea that Jack was actively seeking prostitutes for a variety of reasons. So if he wasn't strict about that, we need to either know why, or accept that there may be a serious flaw in the idea he was hunting prostitutes. Now, I'm fine either way. It just seems a sort of handy thing to all agree on. Sort of how we all generally agree on what a serial killer is.

[GUT]

Mary Kelly was alone when she was killed? Is this another case of self-inflicted wounds?

Must apply to all of them as the great non historian assures us they were alone and drunk when killed, obviously mass suicide, maybe hypnosis induced.

[GUT]

http://casebook.org/victims/

Your source from 1888?

[Joshua Rogan]

By ignoring the ideal type we can also hypothesize that the killer was acquainted with Mary Jane Kelly. She was not alone and drunk in the street when she was killed. She was alone and drunk in a room.

Mary Kelly was alone when she was killed? Is this another case of self-inflicted wounds?

[Pierre]

And your source for that is???

http://casebook.org/victims/

[Joshua Rogan]

Well sure. But was Kate soliciting? And if not, how did the Ripper know she ever did? And if he didn't, was he targeting prostitutes? And if he wasn't, does it matter that Polly was likely soliciting?

Perhaps he was targeting women who looked like they might be prostitutes and wasn't too bothered whether they actually were or not.
Kate was a woman walking the streets alone after midnight, possibly still a little drunk, and last seen heading in the direction of Houndsditch, on which stands St Botolph's, the prostitutes church. Whether or not she was soliciting, it's easy to see how she might be mistaken for someone who was.