Best evidence for left/right/mixed-handedness

[Jon Guy]

In the Stride case, Dr Blackwell describes his thoughts on the killers MO:

Dr Blackwell I formed the opinion that the murderer probably caught hold of the silk scarf, which was tight and knotted, and pulled the deceased backwards, cutting her throat in that way. The throat might have been cut as she was falling, or when she was on the ground. The blood would have spurted about if the act had been committed while she was standing up.
Coroner: Was the silk scarf tight enough to prevent her calling out? -
Dr Blackwell: I could not say that.
Coroner A hand might have been put on her nose and mouth? -
Dr Blackwell Yes, and the cut on the throat was probably instantaneous.

Strides position close to the wall tells us that the right hand was used to hold the knife.

[Elamarna]

Found this interesting description of Stride's injury from the Evening News 1st Oct, 5th edition;


"As she lies in the mortuary her dress is open over her bosoms, but her stays have not been undone. The left side of her face is much dirtied and bruised, as if she had been forcibly thrust down into the mud of the Court.

The cut in the woman's neck is not exactly as has been described by our morning contemporaries. It is not from ear to ear. The knife seems to have been stabbed in deeply at the left side to reach the external carotid, and to have emerged at the carotid on the right side. The superficial length of the wound is from three-and-a-half to four inches."

How does this compare with the doctors' descriptions?

Hi Joshua

"The incision in the neck commenced on the left side, two and one half inches below the angle of the jaw, and almost in a direct line with it, nearly severing the vessels on that side, cutting the windpipe completely in two, and terminating on the opposite side one and one half inches below the angle of the right jaw, but without severing the vessels on that side. Deceased would have bled to death comparatively slowly, on account of the vessels on one side only being severed, and the artery not being completely severed."

Steve

[Jon Guy]

In the Nichols case the killer held her head steady with his left hand (Dr Llewellyn at the inquest tells us that bruising on the lower part of the jaw on the right side could have been caused by the thumb, and the circular bruise on the left side of the face could have been caused by the fingers) and wielded the knife with his right hand.

In the Chapman case we aren`t given any info by Phillips with regard to the recent bruising around her chin. But it`s reasonable to assume that, like Nichols, her head was held steady whilst her throat was cut left to right. Has to be a right handed knife wielder.

[Joshua Rogan]

Found this interesting description of Stride's injury from the Evening News 1st Oct, 5th edition;


"As she lies in the mortuary her dress is open over her bosoms, but her stays have not been undone. The left side of her face is much dirtied and bruised, as if she had been forcibly thrust down into the mud of the Court.

The cut in the woman's neck is not exactly as has been described by our morning contemporaries. It is not from ear to ear. The knife seems to have been stabbed in deeply at the left side to reach the external carotid, and to have emerged at the carotid on the right side. The superficial length of the wound is from three-and-a-half to four inches."

How does this compare with the doctors' descriptions?

[Jon Guy]

Hello Robert St Devil

I,m more leaning towards the woman being laid out before the cutting began. He would have better leverage, and he could turn her body on its side to let the blood drain out [ala Stride].

In the Nichols case the killer held her head steady with his left hand (Dr Llewellyn at the inquest tells us that bruising on the lower part of the jaw on the right side could have been caused by the thumb, and the circular bruise on the left side of the face could have been caused by the fingers) and wielded the knife with his right hand.

[Errata]

Hello Jon Guy.

Unless Jack the Ripper used a lightsaber, there,s issues trying to visualize a standing one-swipe decapitator. [,,jack the jedi,, ,,darth ripper,, <~ Ha! Stole your joke, DJA]. It leaves you pondering the physics required (force, fulcrum, leverage) to simply cut someone,s neck in half. Would he have had to grab her hair? He wouldn,t necessarily put pressure on the back of her neck for leverage considering he might cut a finger, would he?

The physics of cutting a throat from ear to ear in a single slice are incredibly difficult without having to cut deeply enough to sever the head. With requires a very fine wire. There is just no other way without chopping.

[Robert St Devil]

What does Dr Biggs specifically say about Nichols lacerated tongue, and Chapman`s swollen face and protruding tongue ?

Hello Jon Guy.

Unless Jack the Ripper used a lightsaber, there,s issues trying to visualize a standing one-swipe decapitator. [,,jack the jedi,, ,,darth ripper,, <~ Ha! Stole your joke, DJA]. It leaves you pondering the physics required (force, fulcrum, leverage) to simply cut someone,s neck in half. Would he have had to grab her hair? He wouldn,t necessarily put pressure on the back of her neck for leverage considering he might cut a finger, would he?

If you put any worth in Schwartz, then the Stride murder might reveal something. I believe the neckerchief was used to garrotte her. I believe that he crushed her larynx with it before she ,,got away,, from him. Her silent screams for help being caused by her injured throat. I don,t know if she was thuggeed. I know they would use medallions in their scarves when they garrotted to crush the throat, and there are reports of buttons and coins being found around the bodies of the WC victims.

In addition to your mention of protruding tongues and swollen faces, there are two other pieces of possible strangulation evidence: the ecchymosis on the neck, and tge dark clotting in the heart.

I,m more leaning towards the woman being laid out before the cutting began. He would have better leverage, and he could turn her body on its side to let the blood drain out [ala Stride].

[Jon Guy]

Interesting point. However, Dr Biggs has opined that, "arterial spurting is quite uncommon in the wild. Arteries, even large ones, usually go into acute spasm when cut, providing very effective control of bleeding...Also, even if cut, the initial spray is blocked by surrounding structures such that the blood either remains inside the body or simply gushes/flows/drips out of the external skin hole rather than spurting." (Marriott, 2013)

Hi John

Again, Dr Biggs is talking generally about arterial spurting.

Is he aware of the long, deep throat cut that these victims suffered ?
Some blood would have escaped, if not an arterial spurt.

[Jon Guy]

Hi Joshua

I would think it was more difficult for a left-handed killer, myself, but then a lot depends on how you imagine the killer and victim were positioned, how the knife was held and what sort of action was used.

In Kelly`s case the killer undoubtedly moved the body whilst mutilating her, and changed position himself.

Is there anything to suggest MJK sustained only one wound to the throat,?

Yes, the doctors crime scene and pm notes

or could the right carotid artery have been severed first and the wound continued all around once the initial blood flow had decreased?

Yes, that`s what is described by the doctors.

[Jon Guy]

Hi Jerry,

Thanks for this. I wonder how Dr Phillips arrived at the conclusion that Mackenzie was laying down when she was killed. Was this more speculation I wonder.

Hi John

No, it`s all in the post mortem notes.
Have you had a chance to read them ?

[Jon Guy]

I think you need to read the whole Dr Biggs article in which he also covers the issue of whether they could have been strangled first, and if so what visible signs there would have been if any.

What does Dr Biggs specifically say about Nichols lacerated tongue, and Chapman`s swollen face and protruding tongue ?

[Jon Guy]

Hello Robert St Devil

Nicholls may have been laying down.

Yes, most likely.
Two deep cuts to the throat wouldn`t be done whilst she was standing up.

Chapman thru Eddowes could have been standing.

Chapman had been either strangled, suffocated or throttled so she must have been lying down when throat cut.

Eddowes was found with a corresponding pool of blood by her neck wound.
Therefore, her throat was cut where she was found lying down.
She also had an abrasion on her left cheek caused when her head was held when the killer cut her throat.

Biggest question to answer is:
Is it even possible to stand behind a woman and nearly decapitate her with one cut? .

I`d say no. For throat cuts that deep there would need to be support for the head and neck ie. she was on her back.

Of course, lying on the ground provides the type of leverage necessary too... at a much less cost of energy.

Yes

[Robert St Devil]

If the throats were cut when standing their would be blood down the front of the victim, and also there is a strong case that Nichols and Chapman had their breathing interfered with (ie suffocated or strangled) - would they be standing up after been strangled, smothered or throttled ?

Hello Jon Guy.

Nicholls may have been laying down.

Chapman thru Eddowes could have been standing.

Nicholls to me is the 'odd man out' [more than Stride] because there is no neckerchief. Have to believe that she was smothered to death by a right-handed man because of her facial bruising. That, or the first 4 in. cut under her jaw came first and then he/they smothered her [but that would be awkward since it would require having 2 right hands].

Biggest question to answer is:

Is it even possible to stand behind a woman and nearly decapitate her with one cut?

Yes. In the case of Chapman thru Eddowes, he could have had the neckerchief around the neck, and had his left hand throttling a grip on it. With his right hand, he reached around and slit her throat using the neckerchief as control and leverage. It's possible he waited until she was strangled or nearly strangled out. {A story goes that Eliz Stride escaped his grip and got away and cried for help before having her own throat slit.}

Of course, lying on the ground provides the type of leverage necessary too... at a much less cost of energy.

[Trevor Marriott]

If the throats were cut when standing their would be blood down the front of the victim, and also there is a strong case that Nichols and Chapman had their breathing interfered with (ie suffocated or strangled) - would they be standing up after been strangled, smothered or throttled ?

I think you need to read the whole Dr Biggs article in which he also covers the issue of whether they could have been strangled first, and if so what visible signs there would have been if any.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[jerryd]

Hi John,

My guess would be the killer, if operating from Alice's left side, would have undoubtedly been standing in the pool of blood, yet there were no bloody footprints. The terrain sloped from Whitechapel High Street to Wentworth Street which would have made the blood travel toward him if he were "mid-body" while working. On the other side (her right), her dress and body would deflect some of the blood for a period of time. The blood eventually made it's way to the gutter and traveled toward Wentworth Street.

That, of course, is my speculation and not Dr. Phillips. He must of had a reason to believe that though as he stated there was a "great probablity" he was on the right side.