JTR a Pranzini Copycat?

[Pcdunn]

That's right, Abby. She was about 6 or 7 months advanced in pregnancy and Drs Bond and Hebbert concluded that the foetus was removed from the womb after death through an incision. and that no abortion had been performed. Elizabeth's vagina, cervix etc. were all intact and had not endured a labour.

I was interested to read that many of the Anatomical Venuses included a model of a fetus in their wombs-- removable, of course.

[Fisherman]

I was interested to read that many of the Anatomical Venuses included a model of a fetus in their wombs-- removable, of course.

Yes, that is just one of the many matters that has me thinking that the connection to the killings - BOTH torso and Ripper Killings - is inescapable.

[Abby Normal]

Yes, that is just one of the many matters that has me thinking that the connection to the killings - BOTH torso and Ripper Killings - is inescapable.

Hi Fish
something I just noticed.

Isnt there a 10 year gap between the 1870 and 1880 murders of both series?

[Fisherman]

Hi Fish
something I just noticed.

Isnt there a 10 year gap between the 1870 and 1880 murders of both series?

Mathematics is not my strongest point, Abby - the Torso murders occurred in 1873, 1874, 1884, 1887, 1888 and 1889, and the Ripper murders are all in 1888.

How does that produce a ten year gap...?

[MysterySinger]

So are we looking for someone who was possibly in prison or similar in the 10 years between 1874 and 1884>

[John Wheat]

Mathematics is not my strongest point, Abby - the Torso murders occurred in 1873, 1874, 1884, 1887, 1888 and 1889, and the Ripper murders are all in 1888.

How does that produce a ten year gap...?

I think Abby means the ten year gap between 1874 and 1884.

Cheers John

[Fisherman]

I think Abby means the ten year gap between 1874 and 1884.

Cheers John

Ah - that´s correct, of course. Thanks for that! Well, yes, it is a long time, but then again, there are also three years between 1884 and 1887, which is a longish time too.

Both periods require some sort of explanation. But whether it is one of a killer unable to kill, unwilling to kill, killing elsewhere or with a different MO, or one of him just being less reckless and staying off the radar is hard to say.

[Abby Normal]

Ah - that´s correct, of course. Thanks for that! Well, yes, it is a long time, but then again, there are also three years between 1884 and 1887, which is a longish time too.

Both periods require some sort of explanation. But whether it is one of a killer unable to kill, unwilling to kill, killing elsewhere or with a different MO, or one of him just being less reckless and staying off the radar is hard to say.

Hi Fish, JW and Mystery

Yes that's what I was driving at.

I wonder what Lech... I mean the killer was doing in that 10 year time frame?

But its obviously not a deal breaker. Just off the top of my head, I know Dennis Rader BTK had a 10 year gap between killings and other serial killers have had long gaps.

Mystery-Jail is a possibility as is travel, but like rader it might just be personal reasons.

[Fisherman]

Hi Fish, JW and Mystery

Yes that's what I was driving at.

I wonder what Lech... I mean the killer was doing in that 10 year time frame?

But its obviously not a deal breaker. Just off the top of my head, I know Dennis Rader BTK had a 10 year gap between killings and other serial killers have had long gaps.

Mystery-Jail is a possibility as is travel, but like rader it might just be personal reasons.

Rader killed in 1974, -77, -85, -86 and -91 (as far as we know), so there was an eight year hiatus involved. And a five year hiatus. And a three year hiatus.

So yes, there can be long, dormant periods. And as for explanations, they can be many.

Comparing Rader to the the theoretical construction of the combined torso man/ripper, I would say that I am less inclined to believe in long dormant periods when it comes to the latter. But there are so many unknown factors that it is really an impossible call to make.

[Defective Detective]

Sorry for the necro, but:

I found this a month and a half ago -

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=9293

That figure is listed as Mary Jane Kelly on a number of different sites, though she's plainly not. I thought she may have been a noncanonical, but is it possible she's an anatomical Venus and not actually human at all? Quite a few of the posters in my thread there seem to think she looks fake.

[Rosella]

That face is very odd and definitely has a metallic sheen. It's not a photo of any Ripper victim IMO. Perhaps it's a photo of a mockup made for some long ago horror film--mad scientist, aliens, something like that.

[Mayerling]

An illustrated article on Pranzini

I tried to start a different thread on this yesterday but got no response. Then I found this slightly old thread regarding Pranzini and "anatomical venus" museums.

Wikipedia has foreign language sections which are worth looking at, even if you can't speak Italian or French or Russia, due to illustrations. The French Wikipedia has an article on Pranzini, with photographs of the corpses of his three dead victims, all killed in bed. He apparently cut their throats. This is the cite I found.

fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Pranzini

Jeff

[Rosella]

Very clear photos, probably taken in the Paris Mortuary, do you think? I think it's very likely actually that Jack spent a few pennies taking a look at the Pranzini exhibit and others in the Whitechapel waxworks. Perhaps newspaper accounts in Britain showed engravings of the Paris victims? Polly Nichols was killed on the anniversary of Pranzini's execution, though I tend to think the red sky over the docks area that night was a greater stimulus to Jack than any memories of the Paris killings.

[Mayerling]

Very clear photos, probably taken in the Paris Mortuary, do you think? I think it's very likely actually that Jack spent a few pennies taking a look at the Pranzini exhibit and others in the Whitechapel waxworks. Perhaps newspaper accounts in Britain showed engravings of the Paris victims? Polly Nichols was killed on the anniversary of Pranzini's execution, though I tend to think the red sky over the docks area that night was a greater stimulus to Jack than any memories of the Paris killings.

You know, I wish somebody could put that French Wikipedia page into our Ripper Wiki section - someone who could also do a good translation of the French into English. I'm curious about what it says about Pranzini and his case. As for those photos, they might be from the mortuary, and the French have many such photos of victims (like Troppman's in 1869) that survived.

Jeff

[mklhawley]

Hi Jeff,

I started this post, and actually, there's more to the story which will be in my book getting published next week!

My mother's in the hospital, so I can't elaborate at the moment, but I will!

Mike